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Tuesday Jul 03, 2007
Orthodox Opinions: Dealing with the PA and its leader Mr. Abbas Posted by Rabbi Tzvi Hersh Weinreb
Comments: 13
In my past essays on this blog I have tried to write about matters connected with religion as opposed to politics. I have tried to enunciate Judaism's "core", which is essentially a spiritual one. Indeed, in one of my essays I abstained from advocating a military reaction to the situation in Sderot because I felt that my familiarity with "core" Judaism does not, in and of itself, qualify me as a military expert. The Torah expounds in great detail--indeed, in repetitive detail--upon the construction materials and buildings plans, and we study these texts thoroughly. They are Torah. But even the world's greatest expert on these texts cannot claim architectural expertise. I would hesitate, as I'm sure you would, to drive across a bridge designed by someone whose engineering credentials consisted of the careful study of Parshiyot Terumah and Tetzaveh. Nor would I bring my physical ailments for treatment to a physician whose medical background was based on his expert knowledge of Talmudic medicine. I very much sympathized with the Prime Minister, and wished to tell him that I have often found myself most convinced of the correctness of my decisions when they were opposed by both the left and the right wings of my constituency. That usually tells me that I am doing something right.
1 | Jinxie, Wednesday Jul 04, 2007
Dear Rabbi,
The very type of evidence that you specified for justifying continued support of Abbas has been requested and required in all of the agreements between the Israeli government and the Palestinians going back to the disastrous Oslo Accords. Unfortunately, none of these actions have ever been taken by the Arabs, nor are they likely to be taken at any time in the forseeable future. None of this is new; that people still don't seem to realize it suggests we are experiencing the plague of Choshech (darkness).
2 | abe krieger, Wednesday Jul 04, 2007
In business, we know that you try to do business with the decision-maker; you don't want to waste time with underlings.
Abbas is an underling. He doesn't have the power to do anything, so why is Israel investing themselves in him?
This is part of the cowardice that now infests Israel. You would rather live out fantasies than fight.
3 | Jonathan, Wednesday Jul 04, 2007
Among other issues, if the Palestinians were really into "peace" then in the "accords" there would be no concept of making the Jews in the "territories" leave. Certainly a "moderate" leader like Abbas should have no problem with there being Jewish villages and cities under his sovereignty, just as in Israel there are Muslim/Arab villages and over one million Muslim CITIZENS of Israel.
While I as a Jew would definitely not feel safe at all under the PLO, at least that would have been a real show of action that they are into peace.
Instead every opportunity is used to terrorize and evict Jews from their land...making them homeless now.
Therefore, it is time we cut this act of being "open" to "peace" and say it how it is....THE JEWS ARE HERE TO STAY ON OUR TERMS
4 | Paul David Swinford Christian truck driver, Wednesday Jul 04, 2007
Actually I find this letter more than a little funny. The chances of Abbas doing these three step are about the same as Hamas doing these three steps.
Not doing them are the three things they are in agreement with each other.
Abbas is a disciple of Arafat.
5 | Joshua Samuels, Thursday Jul 05, 2007
Rabbi Weinreb is a wise man. He explains as to why he is not calling for military action. His analogy of smashing the gambling tools' is very relevant. Abbas is a murderer of innocent people. He will not follow on any of the three practical steps enumerated by rabbi Weinreb. How do I know? Because the Torah says clearly 'he who rises to kill you -- kill him first.' End of story. Ok it's not a perfect world and maybe Abbas will take out of the PLO charter the destruction of Israel. It really won't make much of a change. How many Americans know the Constitution by heart or its articles? Get my point. It's not necessarily sharp but compelling just the same. Happy July 4th to all freedom respecting people.
6 | Menachem Ben Yakov, Thursday Jul 05, 2007
The big shots blather in NYC while the kids in Sderot tremble in bomb shelters. Rabbis pontificate on both sides frustrations while Jewish blood runs in the streets of Eretz Yisroel.
Between the whole bunch at this meeting not a thing was accomplished, not one Jewish life was saved-
but they got to hobnob and pretend they were important. Peacocks with their beaks in our wallets.
The rest of us are profoundly unimpressed.
7 | Ben K, Thursday Jul 05, 2007
Rabbi,
Abbas indeed has claimed he recognizes Israel and Arafat claims to have revoked the PLO charter and they claim (clearly falsely) Israel supposedly also incites. However a)Hamas is the main ones in power and very importantly b) Fatah pays its Terrorist arm Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, who have suicide bombers and fire rockets at Israel. The issue as for a long time is if he is TRUSTWORTHY and even if he has good intentions, if he can or is AFRAID. Indeed his PAYING AL AQSA MARTYRS BIRGADES and OPEN REFUSAL ALL THIS TIME TO DEAL WITH HAMAS OR ROCKET FIRINGS INTO ISRAEL even from before Hamas took power speaks volumes.
8 | Marc Jacob, Thursday Jul 05, 2007
I do not feel most of the postings here in response have addressed directly what Rabbi Weinreb has written. His point, and it is a very good one, is that IF the Israeli government is backing Abbas with the assumption that he has changed his ways, THEN there is a Torah way to check if this is in fact the case. Barring Abbas acting to do what the Rabbi mentions (many posters indicate that he woudl not, and I am inclined to agree), Israel has no justification for assuming he has changed his ways.
This leaves Israel with having to find some other justification for supporting Abbas, or, alternatively,not supporting him.
Personally, I question whether the Israeli government really thinks Abbas or the P.A. have changed. I think it more likely that the Israeli government is under international pressure to support Abbas, and that the ethos of a hoped-for peace is so strong within the Israeli political mainstream today that haphazard policies like this are implemented more out of desperation than anything else. The "desire for peace" is, above all, Israel's biggest and most active religion today, no matter how irrational the actions taken toward that hoped-for end.
9 | Dan Friedman, Saturday Jul 07, 2007
I wish I could cite chapter and verse but there is some good advice in the Torah that's perfect for the Rabbi. It's an instruction from officers to soldiers about to enter battle and it goes something like this: "if you are faint-hearted, leave and go home."
10 | Milt Trazenfeld, Saturday Jul 07, 2007
The good Rabbi, who refused to step up to the plate and equivocated before the disastrous "disengagement," now wants the Jews to roll the dice with Arafat's protege, Abbas. Maybe he could do us all a favor and stick to checking butcher shops to see they are really kosher.
11 | Efraim Carlsen, Tuesday Jul 10, 2007
As an off and on follower of the daf yomi (but not at a very scholarly level) I wish to express my belief that Rabbi Weinreb has posed a very clever test for Abu Mazen (Abbas). However, even if Abbas wanted to "fly right" in talmudic terms, he would swiftly lose his life -- and he knows that. About the only reason for propping up Abbas (who can't possibly unite the Palestinian Arabs in a viable state) is preserving the illusion of the "peace process" -- perhaps a necessary condition for keeping the Arab potentates in power who so far have continued the flow of oil to Europe and Asia.
12 | A. Letz, Thursday Aug 02, 2007
The Rabbi must be on a long vacation, as this -- last post -- is a month old.
I thought Torah is never on vacation!
13 | A. Letz, Thursday Aug 30, 2007
Correction:
The Rabbi must be on a two-month-long vacation. Or, perhaps he has reconsidered his participation here.
Nearly all leading Orthodox Rabbis/Scholars refuse to participate in this kind of a forum which -- erroneously -- portrays the conservative and reform as "co-equal" with Orthodox.
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