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Wednesday May 28, 2008
The Sephardi Perspective: It is time to decide Posted by Ashley Perry Perez
Comments: 67
There is a battle raging in Israel that has long been simmering just below the surface of the mainstream Israeli perception. However, recent events have meant that the dispute has reached such a magnitude that it has become well known to even those outside of its parameters. Recent accusations against Rabbi Haim Druckman, head of the Conversion Authority that have since led to his being dismissed from his position, have opened this simmering dispute into something akin to an all-out rabbinical war. For those who are not aware of these latest events: basically a ruling by a panel of High Rabbinical Court judges upholding an earlier decision by the Ashdod rabbinical court retroactively annulled a woman's 15-year-old conversion to Judaism by Rabbi Druckman. The issue was that it was felt that Rabbi Druckman had converted someone that he supposedly knew would not lead a completely observant lifestyle. The ramifications of this hard-hearted decision are immense. Not only has the Jewish legal status of the woman involved (and her four children) been annulled, the genuineness of thousands of other conversions under Druckman's authority has been willfully cast into doubt. The ruling could also raise doubts about conversions conducted abroad by non-haredi Orthodox rabbis. This attack on Rabbi Druckman's credentials was led by Rabbi Avraham Sherman, a haredi judge who sits on Israel's High Rabbinical Court, the most senior rabbinical body in the state. This is the same rabbi who recently ruled that a deaf person cannot convert because they can't fulfill mizvot. The dispute can improperly be described as a dispute between haredi and Dati, between the so-called 'ultra' Orthodox and the 'modern' Orthodox. However, these are artificial descriptions in the current conflict and the reasons behind it. The real conflict is between those observant and religious members of society who take into account the whole, and those who see no virtue in relating to society outside of their own highly parochial community. It is between those who see themselves as part of society with all its faults, trying to raise the standard as they see it, and those who have no social responsibility and are glued to the letters on the page of halacha without glancing up to see the living vibrant but imperfect world around them. These are the same people who will call for people to take to the streets and riot because a couple decided to marry without the father of the bride's permission. However, where are the demonstrations against the recent cases of child abuse in certain sectors of the religious community? This latest episode has created a backlash like no other. One of the foremost Sephardi rabbis in America, Marc Angel, reprimanded the decision in the strongest possible terms:
Rabbi Angel has pinpointed the issue at stake. The fact remains that there is a problem and there are brave rabbis who feel that we have to confront the issue head on rather than ignore it and shrink back to the confines of the Bet HaMidrash (religious study hall). The same people, who do not serve in the army, do not undertake national service, rarely work and don't pay taxes should not be in charge of issues dealing with the state and its future. However, there are the beginnings of a major backlash against those who seek to have control over much of our lives without understanding or contributing to wider society. Asher Maoz, a teacher of law at Tel Aviv University, said "Rabbi Druckman may have one fault: He has the "deficiency" of loving the Jewish people and a sense of responsibility for the Jewish people. I thought that the Torah commanded us to have such characteristics. It turns out that I was wrong, at least according to the three respected rabbinic court judges." Maoz continues to suggest that he and people like him have had enough of the current situation, "And now they have thrust the divorce papers in our faces." Respected Rabbi Benjamin Lau took an even more belligerent tone in an open-editorial titled 'Free Israel!'
Apparently some of the major rabbinical figures in the religious Zionist community have been meeting to decide how to react to this massive slap in the face. This is where the Sephardim should make a decision. Chief Sephardi Rabbi Amar was noticeable by his equivocation on this issue and tried to show that he was in favor of either side in the dispute. As Chief Rabbi, Amar could have unequivocally arrived at a halachic opinion to overrule the High Rabbinical Court. This is a very un-Sephardi position to take. A previous Sephardi Chief Rabbi, Benzion Uziel ruled on a similar issue of conversion in the early years of the state:
This is a true Sephardi worldview. Sephardim, as I have mentioned in another article, do not tend to split themselves into groups and do not avoid interaction with those who think differently from them. Even the Sephardi haredi will be close to many members of their family who are not haredi and this should provide them with an understanding of the outside world. The Sephardi Jew is bound by the words of the Rambam who demands that Jews follow the 'Goldan Path' and the 'Middle way' between either ends of extremism. We should not sit idly by and let the future of Israel to be dictated by those who care little for our nation as a whole. It is vital that Sephardim decide which side of this debate to take. The time has passed to equivocate and call for an artificial unity in a cowardly manner; it is for the sake of the unity of Israel as a whole that we have to bring religion and its effect on our lives back to the place where it has historically been. Our Sephardi ancestors would never have tolerated such a usurping of Torah for such parochial matters. Sephardi rabbis historically held professional positions outside of the rabbinate so they could best understand the needs of their community. We should demand a rabbinate that can guide the spiritual and moral compass of all of Israel while understanding the every day realities of life in our state. On the 60th anniversary of the reestablishment of our ancestral home, we deserve nothing less.
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Chas N-B,
Wednesday May 28, 2008
I found this really interesting. I had no idea about the Sephardi view of conversion being this way.
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Miriam, Jerusalem,
Wednesday May 28, 2008
I completely agree! The power is held by these corrupt figures who are marring Judaism. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
You wrote: "We should not sit idly by and let the future of Israel to be dictated by those who care little for our nation as a whole."
So what do you suggest?
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willi, tel-aviv,
Wednesday May 28, 2008
converstion is the right of anyone. no rabbi, court, or governement office has authority to decide who is a jew and who is not. its in the heart, not on the documents
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Alan, Silver Spring MD USA,
Wednesday May 28, 2008
Mr. Perry Perez' views are, as usual for his writings in the JPost, like a breath of fresh air, in this case clearing away some of the pollution emanating from the Lithuanian haredi court.
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Haldrik, Miami,
Wednesday May 28, 2008
This article is well said.
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Ashley Perry,
Wednesday May 28, 2008
Miriam #2
I would say we should support the creation of any religious institutional body that is taken out of the hands of those i specified above. We should also support existing organizations like Tzohar which seek to assist all Israelis to encounter a religious event in an appropriately sensitive manner. I am not talking about cutting anyone off or ostracizing them; I merely call for state institutions to be in the hands of those who care for the state and its people, whether dati, haredi, traditional, secular or other. We should demand nothing less from our leadership.
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Aryeh, Brooklyn / Jerusalem,
Wednesday May 28, 2008
To be fair Ashley, not all Sephardic communities perform conversions. The cousin of Rabbi Angel, for example, the Rav of a prominent Syrian community and Rosh Yeshiva of the first Sephardic Yeshiva Gedola in the Western Hemisphere, is a signatory of the gezeira prohibiting the marriage of community members to converts to avoid the issue of false conversions altogether and to preserve the large numbers of Cohanim in the community. Moreover, how is meritorious at all to convert a Jew whose lack of observance will weigh against our mitzvot? CONVERSION IS NOT A RIGHT!
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Raphael Nemetsky, Wilkes Barre, PA USA,
Wednesday May 28, 2008
To Chas N-B: Conversions can only be implemented in a Bet Din. Also, Mr. Perez, since when did army service or paying taxes have a bearing on erudition? The rabbis in the talmud did not serve in the army of their day.
Finally, why not ask the question of those who imported hundreds of thousands of non-Jews in order to counter the rising Haredi population? They preferred non-Jews to religious Jews. Now they have what they sought and they complain to those who won't solve the problem they created.
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Simcha -- Deal, NJ,
Wednesday May 28, 2008
Very well said and I agree a hundred per cent. The need to bring the multitudes of non-Jewish Israelis who sincerely want to be part of the Jewish Nation (and not necessarily fully observant) is perhaps the biggest problem facing Israel today. Although I share the author's view of the historical approach of Sephardic scholars to this problem, I see far too much evidence currently that the Sephardic Haredi community is as intolerant as its Ashkenazi bretheren, if not more so; witness the injunction against marrying a convert widely enforced in the Bklyn-Deal communities.
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Ezra, Brooklyn, N.Y.,
Wednesday May 28, 2008
Conversion to our sacred religion is purely a religious matter that must be left to the careful discretion of our qualified Rabbis. It is not a political decision at all. A ger is deciding to accept the yoke of the mitzvot, not to become a better "Israeli."
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Spanish and Portuguese Jew from Gibraltar,
Wednesday May 28, 2008
Ashley, you claim to have been raised as part of the Bevis Marks community.
It is no secret that Dayyan Dr Abraham Levy, the Chief Sephardic Rabbi of England does not perform conversions.
How can you make the claim that Rabbi Amar's position is "unSephardic" whilst at the same time claiming to have been raised into that very same tradition???
Maybe you should write a bit about your Mum because it does not seem from much of your journalism that you were raised as you claim to have been.
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rdc usa,
Wednesday May 28, 2008
you are anice person but you don't know what conversions are all about much less how a halachic decision is decifered from the thousands of responsa throughout millenia Also you have avery simplistic view of what a sephardic ruling is as opposed to an ashkenaz one This is not a social issue it is a halachic issue steeped in talmud and responsa. Briefly in tactate nidda there are very strong ststements against accepting converts Jews are not in that business I wish all world religions had adopted this rule regarding the jews A lot more of us would be alive today. No crusades,no pogroms,no inquisi
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leah channah,
Wednesday May 28, 2008
I am the victim of a Ashkenazi rabbi, educated in Baltimore, who RETROACTIVELY invalidated my mothers conversion 35 years after she converted with a beis din in 1946! I was held hostage and forced to undergo a conversion to 'erase the doubt' as the beis din, European Jews, were nifter and my mother wasn't as mitzvah observant as he wanted! I was ignored for five years, @ age 40, my fertile years quickly passing me by, I was given no paperwork, the beis din never signed papers, there is no proof that I 'converted'- meanwhile, I am barren and married late, held hostage ,my pleas ignored 5 yrs!
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Sephardic,
Wednesday May 28, 2008
As 1 in 6 Sephardic children goes to sleep hungry each night and half of all Sephardic Israeli families live below the poverty level do you SINCERELY believe that millions should be spent scouring the world for Gentiles to bring to Israel a the at 90,000 NIS per head to then support for 4 months of ulpan and 10 months of Conversion Institute?
As an Anglo with an Ashk, sounding surname, you remain distant from Sephardic poverty and the effects of anti Sephardi racism in Israel.
Your viewpoints are not those of Israeli Sephardim only those who wish to replace Arab Jews with Hispanic Xtians.
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Proud Sephardi - USA,
Wednesday May 28, 2008
Ashley - great article. Perfectly stated. The problem I see in Israel and the US is that observant Sephardim are lining up with the Haredi/Ultra-orthodox brand of Judaism propounded by Ashkenazim. Sephardim clamor to send their children to their schools in Israel and even the Sephardi kolels are modeled after the Ashkenazi-Haredi approach. Just look at the garb of many Haredi-Sephardim - black hat and suit, and even that silly black coat with a belt. Why do we want to emulate their brand of Judaism? Why? I blame us Sephardim for wanting to gain the approval of Lithuanian-Haredi-Ashkenazim .
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Mark,
Wednesday May 28, 2008
It is sad that haredi bullies have such sway over "orthodox" Judaism. In my experience, the bulk of "modern orthodox" Jews in the U.S. truly beleive that the haredi Litvak world-view is the correct one and that "moderns" are not fulfilling the Torah properly. They cede power to the haredi world by taking this view -which reads the Rambam, R Uziel, and those in between, right out of Jewish history. Hacham Ovadia has taken a stance on the issue, but sadly only indirectly as yet. See [ Link to page ]
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Joe, London,
Wednesday May 28, 2008
I agree with the general drection of Ashley's argument, but I suspect quite a lot of Haredim do work and do pay taxes. I suspect there are quite a few Sephardi Haredim, judging by the issue of discrimination in the Beth Jacob schools. Don't assume Rav Elyashiv supported this High Rabbinical Court ruling. He may have disagreed over the Conversion Authority but I can't see him retroactively revoking thousands of conversions, including those of children born after their mothers converted. This ruling is a complete breakdown of natural justice and halachic decency.
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Miransky USA,
Wednesday May 28, 2008
"The Beit Din does not need to know whether he will observe them. Otherwise you would close the door on all conversion, since we can never know what he will do. From this it is clear that conversion is not dependent on any future observance."
If this is the Sephardi worldview, then may the Sephardim be blessed! If it so that a convert is to be treated as any other Jew, then you cannot revoke a conversion unless you revoke the Jewish status of those halachically born Jews who do not keep the Mitzvot. That would include me. Let us all embark on the Middle Path!
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Jack B., Canada,
Wednesday May 28, 2008
The Sephardi view is not as is stated by the author or by the Sephardi Rabbinate. It is as stated by the greatest Sephardi sage, Maimonides, whose position must not be rejected by modern leaders. He states, clearly, that if the convert is not observed to be following the commandments we must distance ourselves from him. I may add, my own opinion, which I dare anybody to refute, that it is not the purpose of the laws of the Torah to increase the number of sinners in Israel, no matter, and especially, that we can point to the high number of born Jews who do not follow Torah.
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rdc usa,
Thursday May 29, 2008
it takes thousands of responsa which hacham ovadia has at jhis fingertips to render a halachic ruling geirut is not a social issue it is ahalachic one based on thousands of years of precedents this has nothing to do with ashkenaz or sephardic differences on this issue the core of the hesitation on the part of any possek is the fact that thetalmud which preceded ash. or seph. rabbis by more than 1000 years disc ourages any geirut if all the religions of the world applied this to the jews a lot of us will be alive today no pogroms no inquisitions no rockets
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Stanford Newman - USA,
Thursday May 29, 2008
A deaf person not allowed to convert?! How about a paraplegic or a blind person? They can't fulfill all of the mitzvot either? What a terrible, narrow minded, bigoted UNJEWISH attitude. Thank G-D we have Rabbis including the Sephardic who oppose these views. Don't these bigots read Micah or Hillel or Akivah on what Judaism is. We are a religion of justice, mercy, loving kindness, making the world a better place and most of all the love of the Oneness and Infinity of Hashem. We should be making Judaism more attractive for those who wish to convert .
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Matt, US,
Thursday May 29, 2008
as an ashkenazi, i say right on!! i feel that that what perez says is not a sephardi, but rather a Jewish, viewpoint. Rabbi Uziel's ruling should be accepted and practiced
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reader, china,
Thursday May 29, 2008
Yes to no. 3!! I converted in my heart over a year ago and have been faithfully learning halakah. I find it extremely rewarding and cannot imagine going back to non-observance -- it would be like death. I hope to formalize it properly with the mikveh - it is my goal and at the same time will mark another beginning. As a convert, you know that some will never accept you and some totally will...I know I'm not "legally" Jewish yet but in my heart its total and I know that is the most important thing, the rest will follow.
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Sam Schoolsky, Lake Charles, LA, USA,
Thursday May 29, 2008
There are enough people in the world who would deny the rights of Jews and those who truly want to become Jewish. We don't need a Jewish parochial hatred to guide our people into oblivion just to satisfy their own interpretations and unknowing realities of the real world.
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Meir Moses,
Thursday May 29, 2008
Hi Ashley: "Chief Sephardi Rabbi Amar was noticeable by his equivocation on this issue and tried to show that he was in favor of either side in the dispute. As Chief Rabbi, Amar could have unequivocally arrived at a halachic opinion to overrule the High Rabbinical Court."
Rabbi Amar is too politicized and is hedging his own bets. He knows the disdain with which the Mizrahi community is treated by some sections of Torah Judaism - yet he panders to it.With all due respect, some of the leading Sephardi Rabbonim have flip-flopped over the years on many issues and often depending on political winds.
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Chana - MaaleAdummim,
Thursday May 29, 2008
I think it is absurb to tear a country apart and to cause a rift between religious, ultra religious and non observant Jews of whom there are many in the country, especially at a time such as this, when Israel needs all her people to overcome her enemies inside and outside of our country. There should rather be a emphasis on unity, to stand together in the face of moral corruption and invading enemies, e.g. Islam at a time such as this. We can not tear people apart, Drukman proved faithful in his stand for and with his people and land throughout his years, a living Torah!.
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Joe Feld London,
Thursday May 29, 2008
Every community looks for a Rabbinate that reflects its own outlook. I can't see a Satmar Kehilloh appointing a Lubavitcher Rabbi, a Yekkishe Kehilloh appointing a Yeminite Rabbi or a Morrocan Kehilloh appointing a Litvish Rabbi. So why does the mainstream Israeli government seem to be appointing Rabbis and Dayanim who hold Israeli society in contempt and even reject the entire notion of a Jewish state?
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Sherlock Holmes, London,
Thursday May 29, 2008
When Rabbi Sherman disregardied Chief Rabbi Amar's direction and published his ruling, Rabbi Elyashiv was ill and in hospital. I would not assume that Rabbi Elyashiv or other Litvish Gadolim neessary support the way Rabbi Sherman behaved. They have not publicly supported his ruling, and even if they disagreed with the Conversion Authority, that does not mean they would have supported the cavalier way Rabbi Sherman retroactively declared many children to be Gentile because their mnothers' conversions were not satisfactory. Rabbi Sherman could not know the inner intentions of every convert.
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Yossi Baltimore,
Thursday May 29, 2008
Now that Chocham Ovadia Yosef has spoken, it is time for Sephardi Chief Rabbi Amar to also speak and overrule the decision of Rabbi Sherman. It is ironic that Rabbi Amar tried to overturn so many American Orthodox conversions, only to have his own conversion authority overtuirned by one of his own dayanim.
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Ashley Perry,
Thursday May 29, 2008
Ezra #10 - You are correct, it shouldn't be a political decision, but treating Rav Druckman in such a manner was highly politicized.
Spanish and Portuguese Jew #11 - I never claimed to have been raised as part of the Beavis Marks community. Too my knowledge there isn't much of a community. What does my 'mum' have to do with this issue?? Please do not descend to ad hominem attacks to attempt to prove a point.
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Ashley Perry,
Thursday May 29, 2008
Sephardic #14 - You should read many of the articles preceding this one, many of them dealing with the issues you have raised. Anyway, I feel that this is a major issue and one which could decide the future character of our nation. And how is my name Ashkenazi sounding? My real name is Perez or Peretz, sounds pretty Sephardi to me, not that it matters.
Joe #17 - I perhaps should have made it clearer that I am not referring to all haredim, only those (and non-haredim) who contribute little to wider society, yet make decrees for that same wider society without understanding the reality.
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Ashley Perry,
Thursday May 29, 2008
jack #19 - Firstly, only a very small amount of people hold by Mainomides opinions. Every day we ignore countless of his opinions as they became overruled by the Shulchan Aruch (or Mishna Brura for Ashkenazim). I think you should read the story of Ruth, the archetypal convert, who said "Your people will be my people" before she said "Your G-d will be my G-d". This tells us much.
I think you and other critics should read rav Ovadia Yosef's quotes from yesterday and how pushing away a potential convert created Amalek. [ Link to page ]
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Naftali Zvi, Jerusalem,
Thursday May 29, 2008
"The same people, who do not serve in the army, do not undertake national service, rarely work and don't pay taxes should not be in charge of issues dealing with the state and its future."
I hate to tell you, Mr. Perez, but these are barely "issues dealing with the state and its future" but rather issues dealing with Judaism and its future. The proof is that this issue remains on the table whether there is a state or not.
As such, whether the Jewish authorities (the rabbanim) served in the army, worked, or pay taxes is totally irrelevant.
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Binyamin TA,
Thursday May 29, 2008
No bet din can ever annul a person's Giur beshamayim... that is entirely between the Ger and Hashem... though in olam hazeh they can obviously cause tremendous heartache and damage.
IMHO the Israeli government should typically take religious responsibility for those non-halachically Jewish Olim who made aliyah based on the law of return. The same way in which they provide ulpanim for learning Hebrew they should provide courses on Judaism to give them an understanding for the religion of their forefathers, based on whose merit they are here... and then, those who truly want to convert can...
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Ashley Perry,
Thursday May 29, 2008
Naftali #33 Actually this is a very un-Jewish line of thinking, created by 2,000 years of Diaspora. Judaism has laws for taxes, wars and government many years before the modern nation-state was created. Judaism is a 'religion' that has an attachment to a particular land and laws governing society. We took these laws with us into the Diaspora and forgot how to build a nation and independent society. In theory, in Judaism, we have a preistly class and a monarch, but at the moment we have neither until the full redemption.
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Ashley Perry,
Thursday May 29, 2008
contd...
These rabbis act as if they are both rolled into one. How can a true arbitor of halacha make decisions for the greater society when it will not affect them one iota. These people are creating a two tiered society and one that is creating 'baseless hatred', as we know the grestest loss in Jewish society was not created by lack of mizvot, lax conversions or lack of belief, but by 'baseless hatred'. This is an immensely important thing to remember when dealing with such issues.
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Jack B. Canada,
Thursday May 29, 2008
#32 Ashley: I asked if you could refute my view, not the view of the Rambam. That is a sophomoric stance, that the Rambam's view on the matter would not be upheld. It is hard and fast Halacha, and Sephardi rabbis should know better. As for Ruth, the oft-cited amateur scholar's quote source, she was observant long before she came to Israel, having lived in Naomi's house. Her conversion was verifiable. Even Avraham Avinu made the occasional miscue, it's hard to know what's in a person's heart, but that is precisely the point: He did reject a convert, and probably quite a number of them.
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PIl London,
Thursday May 29, 2008
#11 Spanish and Portuguese Jew from Gibraltar; how would you know what living in a Sefardi community is like when your own community has sold out to the 'black hats'.
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Naftali Zvi,
Thursday May 29, 2008
"How can a true arbitor of halacha make decisions for the greater society when it will not affect them one iota."
As I indicated, this is a matter of the future of Judaism - i.e., of the Klal and of yuchsin - it affects every one of us more iotas than you are willing to own up to.
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Naftali Zvi, Jerusalem,
Thursday May 29, 2008
"These people are creating a two tiered society"
The chareidi rabbanim have not introduced new standards. They are maintaining those that they have always upheld. It is pretentious to say they are creating it.
"and one that is creating 'baseless hatred"
This is what I always hear: "You guys are making a two tiered society NOT US and You guys are creating baseless Hatred NOT US".
Without debatiing which side, if any, is right, this statement is in itself as much a proclaimation of "baseless hatred" as any other aspect of this issue.
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Ashley Perry,
Thursday May 29, 2008
Jack #37
You stated a view that Maimonides position "must" not be rejected. So I had to dispell such a notion, even if you keep claiming other people "must" or "must not" do this or that.
As for your own view, I will not refute it any more than any other trite view point of other people.
You have completely misread my article and subsequent comments. I never claimed what the solution should be for potential converts, this was just a symptom of a greater malaise in the Israeli rabbinical leadership.
42 |
Ashley Perry,
Thursday May 29, 2008
Naftali #40
It's interesting that you chose to use the word 'haredi' when I made it clear on a number of occasions that I don't think this is a haredi v dati debate.
It is absolutely obvious to everyone, Rav Ovadia Yosef included (see link provided above), that the criteria for conversion has become stricter and stricter. This form of sartorial Judaism is extremely modern and has very little basis in historical Judaism. And to attack someone and embarrass them in such a public manner without giving them a chance to explain themselves is a major sin.
43 |
Aryeh Brooklyn/Jerusalem,
Thursday May 29, 2008
Bamidbar 5768. Even Moshe Rabenu made the same mistake Ashley. He allowed his compassion to override the critical stringency that would have prevented the Egel ha Zahav, his own expulsion from Egypt and even perhaps the entire Korach incident by proxy. The Erev Rav should have been pushed away as their intent was not to keep the Torah. And to address the issue above, Matan Torah was only possible with those present not only collateralizing their own observance but the observance of ALL of their future generations. TOO MUCH CHESED IS BAD!
44 |
Shlomo,
Thursday May 29, 2008
It is sad to see that rather then a discussion about who and under what circumstances a ger can convert, we have name calling, attacks against communities for which no one here is a spokesperson, and a over reliance of personal opinion instead of halacha. Mr. Perry presented quotes outlining his view and the mesora behind them, if you disagree, ring proofs to bear, and not attacks. The larger point of who should decide halacha is decidedly more difficult, but it is still not necessary for denigration of others and their hashkafa.
45 |
Jack B. Canada,
Thursday May 29, 2008
#41 No, Ashley, trite as it may be, I had your number. Your diatribe against a whole section of Jewish society, Jewish, whether Israeli or not, was not a mere casual analysis of the contemporary scene. You have some admirable quotes from persons with whom most Poskim disagree, and this disagreement is understandable from the common sense point of view. If there is not a reasonable certainty that the potential convert will not leave the mikveh only to drive on Shabbat it is posul. If the point is to convert willy-nilly 300,000 such persons then the Chief Bet Din has acted correctly.
46 |
jp,toronto,canada,
Thursday May 29, 2008
what a shame we just cant get along with each other ,
47 |
jp,toronto,canada,
Thursday May 29, 2008
what a shame we just cant get along with each other , at mount sinia we were all different but this was understood by g-d and yet we were all one in our own way
48 |
Gaby,
Thursday May 29, 2008
Ashley
All your blogs are amazing, and represent true judaism
beautiful explanations
49 |
Naftali Zvi, Jerusalem,
Thursday May 29, 2008
Mr. Perez - Get real. Of course you didn't write "chareidi" you only wrote:
"The same people, who do not serve in the army, do not undertake national service, rarely work and don't pay taxes should not be in charge ..."
Did you mean here the Dati Leumi? Sepharadim? Meretz? Dahli Lama (who, l'maaseh, meets all the criterion)? Hamas?
50 |
Gideon, Bet Shemesh,
Thursday May 29, 2008
Mr. Perry,
Could you please provide a source for your quote of Rabbi Uziel.?
I was not able to find it anywhere in his responsa, "Mishpetei Uziel"?
Thank you!
51 |
Chris - Bronx, N.Y. USA,
Friday May 30, 2008
Its sad to hear that people who have decided to convert are being not considered worthy because an individual (or a group) feel that they aren't fully committed. I love Israel and the Jewish people and when you consider everything that the jewish people have endured over time its sad to read (and hear) what I have read in this article. I pray that the Lord (the God of Israel) raise up Rabbis who will guide Israel along the greater path of true righteousness. God Bless Israel and the Jewish People.
52 |
Yoseph Avraham, London,
Friday May 30, 2008
The President of the High Rabbinical Court is Chief Rabbi Amar and he told Rabbi Sherman not to publish his ruling because Chief Rabbi Amar did not agree with it. The Conversion Authority and Rabbi Druckman also operate under Chief Rabbi Amar. We had one department of the Chief Rabbinate condemning another departrment, against the Chief Rabbis orders. We then had a blanket suggestion that thousands of people are retroactively not Jewish, without studying each case individually. I am a Litvish Charedi and I can see clearly that this case is a disaster.
53 |
Ashley perry,
Friday May 30, 2008
Jack #45
Who said we should convert 300,000 people? I am only talking about those who wish to convert.
Naftali Zvi #49
There are plenty of haredim who do all of the above. I served in the army and work with haredim, so no I didn't mean haredim.
Gideon#50
The quotes are from the book 'Loving Truth and Peace: The Grand Worldview of Rabbi Benzion Uziel' by Rabbi Marc Angel.
54 |
Ashley perry,
Friday May 30, 2008
Aryeh #43
Actually I disagree. Rav Uziel gave a very important responsa on this issue when he declared that the the lesser of two evils is the better path. When all these non-Jews could intermarry with Jews, this is a far worst sin than converting a non-Jew who may not keep the halacha. Especially as many of these people are the descendants of Jews (or a as rav Uziel puts it, from 'Zera Yisrael, and thus had a holy element). "You did not bring back those who were driven away, and those who were lost you did not seek" (Yehezkel 43:4)
55 |
Jack B. Canada,
Friday May 30, 2008
#53 Very well Ashley. Those who truly wish to convert should definitely receive serious consideration. However, a conversion court that bases its approach on the alleged necessity to convert so many Russian-Israelis because the sky is falling, should be challenged. The proof of the pudding is in the eating: Since this is the stated policy of the Zionist Rabbis, and since the results are so deficient, one must assume that their process needs to come to a grinding halt. It is unfortunate that some real converts may be caught up in it, but let it be a warning that total sincerity is required.
56 |
Mark, Los Angeles,
Friday May 30, 2008
Whether or not that is wise is a matter of dispute. But many earlier authorities and those not having undergone the EU experience held otherwise. The issue is not cut and dried. But there is little doubt in my mind that the EU Yeshiva-world does not have a monopoly on the true approach to Judaism. Much of their approach which most lack the knowledge to refute or question is based on modern cultural and historic influences and challenges. This however they will rarely if ever admit. Cont'd in next
57 |
Mark, Los Angeles,
Friday May 30, 2008
Many still scorn non-Jews and believe that the universe is actually 5768 years old, when all empirical evidence available points to the contrary. They, however, believe that these matters are an issue of Halakha, when in my opinion based on Halakhic sources they are msitaken. The problem as I see it is that they wish to cram their narrow world view and narrow approach to Halakha on everyone even on issues where there has been or is bona fide Halackic debate. The fact that the Haredi-Yeshiva world has elected to accept one view does not make it right.
58 |
Debra USA,
Monday Jun 02, 2008
Anyone that loves this country and is willing to die for her should be able to convert without having abusive Rabbis getting in their way. Enough is enough!
59 |
Yehudha Yerushalayim,
Wednesday Jun 04, 2008
Poshe'im. I know many sincere converts, shomere miswoth, that converted through Druckman's beth din. Instead of telling these great Jews to convert again, these "dayyanim" should go back to studying Tora in their "cheider", beginning with the aleph-beth, because it seems the first time they haven't gotten a clue.
60 |
Proud Sephardi - USA,
Thursday Jun 05, 2008
#59 -Yehudha. Perfectly stated! It is these "dayanim" that are violating miswoth by trying to invalidated Druckman's conversions.
61 |
Eli B., Brooklyn, NY,
Sunday Jun 08, 2008
Ashley, you are a credit to your people. I'm glad that there remain some voices of reason in the greater Jewish community besides R' Angel, Faur, Shamah and the like. We need more courageous leaders such as yourself to make the case for a saner, pragmatic yet halakhically grounded Judaism. Enjoy Shavuot! (though I suppose it already started up there).
-e
62 |
DC, Tampa, FL,
Tuesday Jun 17, 2008
"This is the same rabbi who recently ruled that a deaf person cannot convert because they can't fulfill mizvot."
I guess this rabbi was not aware of the Holocaust and Nazi Germany. He is ignorant and repugnant if he indeed made such an inhumane ruling.
63 |
Michal Canada,
Thursday Jun 19, 2008
In all religions piety without compassion is a disaster.The liberal approach of ethics and compassion with less concern for mitzvot is incomplete but the ultra-Orthodox are polarizing into it's opposite which is perhaps even worse. More and stricter rulings every day, no concern for humiliating people publicly (which traditional Judaism abhorred as being tantamount to murder)...they are no longer in line with the sensitivities of the tradition either. Excess piety has always led to schisms which can be seen with Haredi groups that won't eat with each other over a chumras about fruit.
64 |
Michal Canada,
Thursday Jun 19, 2008
It seems that a fundamental difference is the attitude to believing. Some Ashkenazi/Charedi are happier if someone says they agree with their beliefs even if they don't practice but they will spit at a liberal Jew who keeps all the Commandments they can but does it by a different worldview. This makes them dogmatic and more like Xtianity in that way. It seems the Sephardi emphasis is on the doing, that it would be nice if converts truly believed and one should discourage/reject those who won't practice but once dunked, it's a done deal for both sides. Ritual acts have more power than beliefs
65 |
Mark,
Friday Jun 20, 2008
To #63/64 - Really welly said, Michael.
66 |
Rogério Palmeira,Salvador,Brazil,
Wednesday Dec 31, 2008
Why people that think the very existence of State of Israel is not legitime,can control religious affairs ? Are Haredim enprisoned in their own historical traumas ?
67 |
Bonnie Canada,
Tuesday Aug 04, 2009
I believe they care more than you realize. As for not working - have you ever undertaken the study of Torah. 24/7 is not enough time to get it all. They work overtime, all the time.
Also, they are very alert. Beware of Greeks....
There are many sneaky ways of undermining Israel. The west does not always know her real friends and this is in part to sneaky moves from her enemies.
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