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Monday Jul 07, 2008
The Sephardi Perspective: Don't mess with the stereotype Posted by Ashley Perry (Perez)
Comments: 77
I have to admit it; I really enjoyed Adam Sandler's new film "Don't mess with the Zohan". If all of Sandler's previous films barely elicited a smirk from me, with Zohan I was in tears. The Israeli stuck in the age of 'Disco' and obsessed with matkot (beach racket game) was spot on.
While Sandler's attempt at an Israeli accent sounded more Marseille than Metulla, there was another stereotype which bothered me more. Sandler's Zohan is just another attempt to express Israeli culture solely through the lens of the Jewish-American experience. The actors playing Israelis pepper their language with Yiddish, like telling a pair of dogs to 'Gay shluffen', and are obsessed with a drink bizarrely named 'Fizzy Bubblech'. Even more outlandish is an Arab chain of shawarma shops called 'Muchentuchen'. Sandler, fellow producers Robert Smigel and Judd Apatow, are all Ashkenazim who have been to Israel a total of twice between them. This means that their view of Israel and Israelis is decidedly out of context and seen as a kind of Lower East Side on a national scale. The only authentic non-Israeli Sephardi in the cast is Emmanuelle Chriqui, a Canadian Jew of Moroccan parentage, who plays a Palestinian hairdresser.
In the producer's views, Jews in Israel appear as an appendage to the Jewish American culture, which is overwhelmingly Ashkenazi. However, Sandler and co can not be blamed for this stereotype. American Jewish humor has long been the bastion of the Ashkenazi histiography and the Yiddish punchline. Words like shnook, shlong and shmendrik are adapted by the Jewish American comedian because of their funny sounds. There is a legend that F. Scott Fitzgerald used to wander into a Jewish delicatessen just to hear the word "knish." The birthplace of modern American Jewish humor is undoubtedly the Catskills, otherwise known as the 'Borscht Belt', and this nickname says it all. Most contemporary American Jewish comedians are inspired by the likes of Jackie Mason, Woody Allen, Lenny Bruce and Milton Berle and will mimic them up to the Yiddishisms which they undoubtedly did not grow up with. According to the introduction to 'The Big Book of Jewish Humor' most people "still seem to think of Jewish humor as belonging to the world of Eastern Europe and to the early stages of acculturation in America--more or less like Yiddish itself." When these comedians joke about Israel they must dip into the tired Ashkenazi box of punch-lines because they feel that is what the Jewish and non-Jewish audience expect. It is similar to the African-American experience being completely divorced from the realities of Africa. A few years ago Jon Stewart of The Daily Show, talked about a new Middle East war breaking out because Israelis lobbed a bagel at some Arabs. This was considered hilarious by the audience who obviously had no idea that up until fairly recently you couldn't find a bagel in Israel for love nor money. I think it is little coincidence that there are no famous Sephardi comedians in North America. Sephardi culture would seem so alien to an audience too used to hearing Jewish comedians jibe about kneidlach soup or their 'Yiddische mama'. This is in direct contra-disctinction to North American Jewish singers and actors where Sephardi Jews more than make their mark. Sandler's Zohan can be seen through this prism. The audience is happily spoon-fed a diet of old-school American Jewish jokes coupled with some outlandish and unlikely Israeli characteristics. As George Eliot once noted "Different taste in jokes is a great strain on the affections". To be successful in American Jewish comedy you have to become familiar and not break the mold, thus anyone in comedy with an Ashkenazi-sounding name must sprinkle their comedy with Yiddishisms. It is almost expected. The Zohan film serves Israeli hasbara on the whole quite well. Israelis are seen as more real and accessible and not purely through news and documentaries about war and terrorism. However, to imprint on the Western mind that Israel is but a small version of the eastern European or even a New York ghetto does little for our arguments about our roots to the land. Although Israelis are shown in the film to be obsessed with humous and use Arabic slang, perhaps the largest nod to the presence of Sephardim in Israel is not particularly a positive one. Towards the end of the film, Arabs and Israelis are lamenting their lot in America to one another. The Arabs say they are disliked and mistrusted because everyone thinks that they are terrorists. One Israeli countered that they experience a similar feeling from Americans "because people think we are you!", addressing one of the Arabs. Although possibly quite true, it highlights one of the few places in the film where the "other" Jews are even alluded to. Suddenly shattered in the last few minutes of the film is the idea that Israelis actually aren't a projection of the Ashkenazi American and are quite possibly from a different construct. This throw-away joke is telling and although derogatory, hopefully makes the audience aware of a different kind of Israeli, one that they may not be familiar with. American Jewish comedians would do well to scrape beyond the surface of their own ignorance about the Jewish state and learn more about Israel and its diversity. Perhaps then the stereotype will drop and Israelis will be seen as an authentic part of the Middle East.
1 |
Arielle, Montreal,
Monday Jul 07, 2008
I didn't get all that Yiddish nonsense either. Who talks like that in Israel??? No one under 50. Seriously. And that whole 'disco' aspect makes no sense....Israelis are known for liking disco? Where??
2 |
Joe Gettinger, Jpost.com office,
Monday Jul 07, 2008
The thing I didn't get was the hacky sack. The disco, from a perspective of a american misconception, I can get. (It's simmilar to the wrong assumption that Israel and the rest of the word is 20 years behind in trends). Where is there any hint of that much, if any, hackysack in the middle east?
3 |
Ron - Montreal,
Monday Jul 07, 2008
MontrealAs an Israeli-Canadian of Ashkenaz origin residing in a city of 500.000 Arabs, I've always insisted that, within a cultural, social (and certainly dietary) context, Israel as a polity reflects and absorbs far more of a true Mid-East flavour than the Borscht-belt shtick evidenced by U.S. film culture. It's no coincidence that most expatriate Israelis find far more in common (culturally not religiously, of course) with their fellow Mid-East (and often, North African) immigrants, than with their Jewish brethren of American birth. The Zohan character...about 80% right!
4 |
Akiva Goldberg,
Monday Jul 07, 2008
That accent is horrrrrible
5 |
Jonathan Stern/Yoni Kochavi,
Monday Jul 07, 2008
Good article. You really zeroed in on how uncomfortable this film made me feel. Additionally, one of the film's points that Zohan has left Israel to get away from all the mutual hatred is problematic. We are in the midst of a long, diffictult struggle with Islamic world. While we are not "chaf mi peshah," I think that it's fair to say that we Jews have done a better job at coming to grips with the idea that compromises have to be made.
6 |
uzd2likesandler,
Monday Jul 07, 2008
Don't worry, no one saw the movie. This movie was aweful. I'm surprised it even made the theaters.
7 |
Reggi NY,
Monday Jul 07, 2008
Yes there are many American Jews who do not know the true Israel or the true Israels. Is Adam Sandler one of these? Maybe. Yes his movie was not spot on regarding the Israesli stereotypes listed above, but its not something that Jews should get all worked up over. The fact that a there was a mainstream movie centered around Israel and the Israeli conflict (in a light note) is wonderful! Walk out the movie with a smile on your face and funny jokes in your mind, not anger towards the movie because it wasnt perfect in your opinion.
8 |
Mark, New York,
Monday Jul 07, 2008
The hero in this movie catches broiled fish in his butt and a bullet between his fingers. Towards the end, as he kicks a bad guy in the face, he holds his foot up long enough to have his shoe size measured. But I don't find any of this is nearly as funny as people who to read cultural or political messages into what is nothing more than a stupid movie.
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Ralph Bedein USA,
Monday Jul 07, 2008
There is one stereotype in the movie that rings true: the Israeli who leaves Israel for the USA.
10 |
Ban Z USA,
Monday Jul 07, 2008
I like Adam Sandler but not Zohan...it was a siily farce ...even making Jews looks foolish. Not Anti semitic..but like Roths "Portnoy"..it came close. Too bad we Jews portray ourselves so negitively in books and movies. There is no Superman!
11 |
Joe, Baltimore,
Monday Jul 07, 2008
As a child in Baltimore I recall a Yemenite Israeli visitor to our Litvish shul. At shalosh seudos on Shabbos afternoon, one of our members very politely suggested to this Yemenite visitor that he looked ever so slightly ' just like an Arab.' The Yemenite replied, 'And to me you all look just like shkutzim!'
12 |
Sherlock Holmes, London,
Monday Jul 07, 2008
For Americans it is not possible to imagine Jews from Egypt [except in the Bible] or India or Iraq or North Africa. Jews by definition come from Germany, Austria-Hungary, Poland and the Czarist Empire. As Israelis tend to be Jews, Israelis must therefore also come from the above places. On the other hand an Indian Jewish friend told me that when British soldiers were sent to her synagogue in India during World War II, the congregants concluded that these BritsI don't look Jewish or even sound Jewish when they davven!
13 |
Proud Sephardi - USA,
Monday Jul 07, 2008
Ashley - you are right. Something else that irks me is the term "Kosher". This is clearly the Ashkenazi pronunciation of the Hebrew word "Kasher" and it has become the word of choice in USA, Europe, and in Israel when describing something that is "Kasher".
This also lholds true for the term 'Shabbos'. When Sephardim say this word, they are choosing to blend in with the dominant Ashkenazi culture. They are further surrendering their own rich heritage in order to gain acceptance from the 'in-group'. What they are really doing is perpetuating a total distortion of the Hebrew language.
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Catherine,
Monday Jul 07, 2008
This is what I have been trying to explain my American Jewish friends- not being brought up with the New York/ New Jersey, Ashkenazi, Jewish or Yiddish heritage - I was attracted to the Sepharadi culture of Israel - which is the real culture of Israel, not Jewishness as most Americans know it - the characters in my book are probably not to be found in Adam Sandler's movie. For that reason, I may not enjoy it so much - the Macho Israeli to someone from Brooklyn would indeed appear to be more like an Arab. Catherine Hand, author of The Green Beach, A Novel About Israel
15 |
Tony Balkans,
Monday Jul 07, 2008
wahhhhh thats all i got from this article
16 |
Doreen Ellen Bell-Dotan, Tzfat, Israel,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
Mizrahi Jews are not Sephardi Jews unless their bloodlines go back to the time of the Jews is Spain, Portugal and Italy and they have not interbred with indigenous populations.
Sephardim Tehorim are a distinct group of Jews and care should be taken not to confound Sephardi and Mizrahi.
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Mahesh Lavannis,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
How can you complain about your American brethren, when you yourselves fail so badly at identifying yourselves with your Arab brothers who have descended from Abraham through Ishmael?! You who would rather be close to Europe than to Arabs, you who conveniently forget your roots when it suits your needs, why now point fingers at your cousins in America?
18 |
Ricardo,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
Many years ago I was driving on Interstate 5 from Salem, Oregon to Los Angeles. About 100 miles north of Los Angeles there's a rest stop and since it was a Holiday weekend, a local Service Group was serving coffee to drivers. I pulled in and was talking with the people at the coffee table. One of the guys was Jewish and saw my Magan David around my neck and said something to me in Yiddish. I told him I didn't speak Yiddish. He was horrified and wanted to know why my parents never taught me Yiddish. I told him we spoke Spanish not Yiddish. He responded "Are you sure you're Jewish?"
19 |
Daniel,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
I agree with the article 100% !! My parents are from the former USSR, but let me tell you - Ashkenazi culture is not really Jewish. We are from the Middle East, not Berlin, Moscow or the Brooklyn. Yiddish is GERMAN. Did Abraham and Moses speak German?? No! If we want to have a legitimate claim on our ancestral land (which we do!) we must re-assert our MIDDLE EASTERN roots. Speak Hebrew, NOT Yiddish!! And another thing - what's with all the German names? Change them BACK to Hebrew names, like Ben-Gurion did. We are a Semitic people!
20 |
Daniel, Israel,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
Let's face it, the US is an Ashkenazi country, in which Jewish humor is identified with the Yiddishate Catskills tradition.
This is not to say that the Sfaradim do not belong there, just as the Ashkenazim are perfectly at home in the overwhelmingly Sepharadic-majority communities of France or Italy.
There, Jewish comedy has a distinct North-African flavor, and it is just as funny as the North-American variety, although it is seldom expressed in English.
21 |
JJ, TA,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
This article is spot on. US Jews are dominated by Ashkeanzim, Israelis are a multi cultural blend of Mizrahi and Ashkeanzi, (not to mention Ethiopian, Gruzinim, Persian, and many others), with the Jewish Middle Easterners taking a dominant cultural place in Israel. Sandler and American Ashkenazim don't have much of a hope in grasping that because they are too stuck in their Ashkenazi bubble. (p.s. I am Ashkenazi).
22 |
avner .london,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
numer 19 you are 100% right the jews must stop all that crap about elite just ask the nazis
23 |
Mike, NY,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
what I hear here is: " I'm ashkenazi' or "I'm sefardi" or " Gruzinim are better then ephiopim".... well, when it comes to the worth, they will shoot you just for been jewish with no regards of your ancesters. we all one people. don't make any separation between us, please.
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HonestAbe, Brooklyn, NY,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
I did not see this film and I won't. I was born Jewish, but my reasons for continuing to be Jewish are to me profound. The Jewish view keeps life from being trivialized, which is exactly what ANY American comedy film is going to do- trivialize whatever its target is. In this case that target is Israel, and the center of Judaism in the world today. I really don't need a group of pathetic, assimilated American Jews telling me what they think about matters dealing with Judaism or the purpose of life. I grew up with these Jews and I avoid them. Soon they will dissapear through assimilation. GOOD!
25 |
Nathaniel, Montreal,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
To anyone who didn't know, the #1 comic in France is a North American Jew of typical... Sephardi culture. He is utterly unmixable with Sandler and his acolytes nonetheless. Should we be surprised? Chriqi's evolution in Ashkenazidom is therefore quite a development unto itself.
26 |
Dylan NY,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
The best part about this movie was not the yiddish humor nor is it the sexual humor. This movie was a Satire on the Israel/Palesitne conflict and how most of the world sees it. Most people in the world see the conflict as pointless and that seperated from the pressures of the muslim/zionist societies that they would be different loving people....
27 |
Gilles, Montreal,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
Without wanting to read too much into this movie, I was struck by its outdated view of Israel and Israelis. This notion of the out-of-place Israeli who lands in 21st century Manhattan like some country bumpkin stuck in a mid-70's time warp has to derive from an opinion formed decades ago. Let's not let the fact that Israel has caught up with (and, in some cases, surpassed) many Western countries economically get in the way of some long-held stereotypes. Many American Jews still fondly hold on to the self-serving but also outdated idea that Israel is its needy cousin from abroad.
28 |
Mark,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
To #11, Joe from Baltimore - Mizrahi Jews, Yemenite Jews in particular, are sick of the patronizing and "auslander" (other, foreigner, outsider) rhetoric and attitude of EU Jews. It does not surprise me that the Yemenite in your anecdote said what he said - after all that the Ashkenazi elite perpetrated on the devoted and humble Yemenite Jews upon there arrival to Israel and thereafter. E.g., the wresting of their babies from them to give them to "better" Jews of EU decent. These people were so arrogant and "superior" that they lied to the mothers by telling them that the babies died. Wake up
29 |
bt, USA,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
WOW people it's a movie not a documentary, lighten up and laugh.
30 |
Sam T USA,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
For me a Jew is anyone who is born of a Jewish mother or converts to Judiasm. Of course one has to assert his Jewishness...in other words says..I am a Jewish person. He/she cannot believe in any other religion. A Jew can be secular but attached with love to our Jewish culture. This Sephardic/Askenazi business is foolishness. Hitler, (the mammzer) didn;t care what kind of Jew one was...straight to the gas chambers they went. We have too many enemies out there to argue this "who is a Jew" business.
31 |
Joseph, London,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
I find it interesting that to many Israelis Ashkenazim are one group. Actually we are at least a dozen groups with different backgrounds and even different pronuciations of Hebrew! Yekkes from Frankfurt and Litvaks from Vilna are quite different, as are Chabadniks from Russia and Satmarers from Hungary. When Russian Jews came in droves to the UK and USA after 1880 the older German Jewish families tried to keep as far away as possible.
32 |
ariel baltimore,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
ZOHAN RULES !!! dont read to deep into it . sandler was making fun of his israely friends - its true he did capture some authentic israeli behavior !!
33 |
Eva, New Jersey,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
The movie was just plain funny, silly, etc. a very good laugh
living in all these cultures and knowing the languages definitely made it funnier, and let's face it israelis love their hummus, they serve it even in their flights.
we all need to lighten up sometimes and just laugh
it is good for our soul
34 |
Serge, Montreal,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
First, re "I think it is little coincidence that there are no famous Sephardi comedians in North America" -- Nathaniel is absolutely right. Gad Elmaleh is a famous Sephardi comedian in Montreal which, as far as I am aware, is in North America. Mr. Perry is guilty of exactly the same generalizing-from-experiences which he accuses others of.
Second, it is quite bizarre that Mr. Perry focuses in on the "only non-Israeli Sephardi". Of course, there were many Sephardim or Mizrahim in the film who were Israeli. Why this distinction?
35 |
Serge, Montreal,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
Third, "Proud Sephardi" writes that "the term "Kosher" is "clearly the Ashkenazi pronunciation of the Hebrew word "Kasher" ". No. The term was imported into English by the Sephardic British community which long preceded the immigration of Eastern Ashkenazim to the English-speaking world (much to the dismay of the Spanish & Portuguese Jews, who looked down on and shunned them in every way).
Fourth, I think the tenor of the comments is right: The overwhelming proportion of American Jews are Ashkenazi. They loom as large in the U.S. as Mizrahim in France or, increasingly, Montreal. No malice.
36 |
Serge, Montreal,
Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
Finally, I must disagree with Nathaniel's comment that Gad Elmaleh is "utterly unmixable" with "Sandler and his acolytes". To anyone who has seen the stand-up of both, or to anyone who knew or hanged out with Elmaleh when he was still living in Montreal, it must be said that the opposite is true.
37 |
BK,
Wednesday Jul 09, 2008
It's just a movie playing to an audience of Americans who are familiar with stereotypes of Jews that they project onto Israel and Israelis. So what? Nu? You want they make the Sfardim look like shnooks too?
38 |
Haza, Florida,
Wednesday Jul 09, 2008
It is ABOUT TIME someone said this! I have always contended that American Jews, and Israeli media for that matter, have failed to parade Israel's multi-hued, multi-cultural splendor with the pride it deserves. Even Israeli media hides it. Jews come in all colors and the culture of Israel is not bagels with lox and cream cheese! There are Jews as light as snow and as dark as coal (look at the Lemba in South Africa with the highest percentage of cohanim who still arent recognized). But in my opinion, the Jews that most closely resemble the culture and look of the patriarchs are the mizrahi.
39 |
Haza, Florida,
Wednesday Jul 09, 2008
One more thing....In light of how the Arab world paints Israel's existance as some sort of Apartheid (despite Arab oppression of Africans for centuries through slavery), you would think that the Israeli media would show more of their Ethiopian, Mizrahi and Sephardic populations in their news AND in their government....to the world, Israel is the white Western occupiers who oppress poor Arabic people of color. Why doesnt Israel and JPost combat this. When the young Ethiopian Jew was among those killed by the gunman recently, I barely saw his face in Jewish media!!!!!!!!????????????
40 |
Ellen USA,
Wednesday Jul 09, 2008
I saw the movie. Enjoyed it immensely. I lived in Israel for 6 years. Born in the USA-Polish/BelaRuss/Bohemian grandparents.
I was startled reading the comments here.
It was a fun movie. It was a momentary reprieve from all the hatred I experienced in Israel-
It ended on a joyful childish note -that's comedy.
Ellen
41 |
Jeruz,
Wednesday Jul 09, 2008
I think Palestinians should be given way more credit than just a bunch of goat herding, shawarma shop owning, cab driving idiots.
42 |
Yisrael Chan,
Wednesday Jul 09, 2008
The biggest mistake I made today was reading this article. As a Jew from China, I'd like to know why we weren't represented int this high-class never to be forgotten classic of a movie.As we say in China "ist Narishkeit".
43 |
Loved the Zohan, Toronto,
Wednesday Jul 09, 2008
it sounds like a lot of complaining about a simple, lighthearted movie for absolutely no reason.
As someone who works for Israel, I can tell you that this movie did more positive things for the State of Israel than it did negative. So what if Sandler called the drink "fizzy bubblech" instead of something less yiddish and more typically Israeli?
At the end of the day, Israel has made a mark on Hollywood enough so that Americans are given a peek into what might be really going on there over and above war and conflict.
I think its great that Sandler give the Zohan an air of superhero-ness!
44 |
Ashley Perry,
Wednesday Jul 09, 2008
To those who claim that I should lighten up and not read too much into this have missed the point or not read the article in its entirety.
I stated at the beginning that I found the movie very funny. The movie wasn't the point of the article, it was a sympton of something which makes many English-speaking Sephardim uncomfortable. Judging by the talk-backs, I am not the only one. It is another example of our history, culture and existence being almost completely ignored.
45 |
Ashley Perry,
Wednesday Jul 09, 2008
The point of the column in general is to give a viewpoint not often heard. Those who complain about reading too much into something or not taking this or that too seriously are exactly the sort of audience who need to hear another perspective to which they are apparently lacking.
You don't have to agree with us, but at least appreciate that we have a legitimate perspective and one that needs to be heard. Those who delegitimise the way Sephardim feel or relate to an issue proves the necessity of this column.
46 |
Ashley Perry,
Wednesday Jul 09, 2008
And I agree with those who feel that on the whole the Zohan movie was good for Hasbara, as I mentioned in the article when I stated "The Zohan film serves Israeli hasbara on the whole quite well."
Imagine that!
47 |
Jeffrey Blustein, NJ,
Wednesday Jul 09, 2008
Interesting points raised by the author, maybe they can be addressed in a sequel. Maybe Nudnik Szpilkes from Get Smart can make a cameo appearance?
48 |
Proud Sephardi - USA,
Wednesday Jul 09, 2008
Serge - #35. I'm wondering where you got your information that the word "Kosher" originated among British Sephardim. Why would British Sephardim intentionally mispronounce a word? I used to live in England - and I can see how they pronounce words like "All" or "Call" different than Americans do. Is this the reason?
49 |
Proud Sephardi - USA,
Wednesday Jul 09, 2008
Serge - #35. I'm wondering where you got your information that the word "Kosher" originated among British Sephardim. Why would British Sephardim intentionally mispronounce a word? I used to live in England - and I can see how they pronounce words like "All" or "Call" different than Americans do. Is this the reason? However, I just took a look at: [ Link to page ] and it seems that "Kosher" was used among Ashkenazim prior to its use in Britain by Ashkenazim. Your thoughts?
50 |
Serge, Montreal,
Wednesday Jul 09, 2008
No, Ashley, it is another example of our history, culture and existence being almost completely ignored in an environment in which we are almost completely non-existent. For several generations, 95% of American Jews have been Ashkenazi. Guess what. So is 95% of American Jewish cultural output. I for one am not crying over it. These things tend to follow demographics. Come to Montreal and you will see. Go to France and you will see. Wait a generation and, in L.A. and Miami, you will see too. It's not a matter of reading too much. It's a matter of total misreading.
51 |
Anglo-Sephardi in Israel,
Wednesday Jul 09, 2008
Great article. If the movie did nothing more than spawning this article, then it was already a success. Thanks for talking about this.
52 |
Aaron Haleva, New York,
Wednesday Jul 09, 2008
"Mizrahi Jews are not Sephardi Jews unless their bloodlines go back to the time of the Jews in Spain, Portugal and Italy and they have not interbred with indigenous populations." No. "Sefaradi" referred to a participant in a culture. Not a "bloodline." Good god! The culture was developed primarily in Spain, and when Maimonides and about 1/3 of the Andalusian Jews returned to the East, they brought it to Halab, Sham, Masr, Baghdad, Yemen and the Maghreb. In fact, the Castilian Jews absorbed German and French Jews, like Rosh. "Benarroche" is thus more German than Spanish!
53 |
robert, los angeles,
Thursday Jul 10, 2008
i enjoy my role as scourge to n. american ashkenazim who think and act like manhattan is the center of the universe.
the global jewish community is exactly that: global. we should be celebrating that rather then giving into lazy ethnocentrism.
54 |
Paul Velasquez, Colorado USA,
Thursday Jul 10, 2008
Listen a one Sefardi. Puting the movie aside for now, is time to reclaim the long, rich culture of the Sefardim. Like Doreem # 16, else put it, don't get confused with Sefardi and Mizrahi. ONLY those with roots to Spain/Portugal geography and culture are true Sefardim, period. We are NOT "oriental" Jews, our costumes, food, traditions are more Jewish, that of those "americanized/euro Jews" even our Spanish language is more related to Hebrew that any other in the world,yes.As a Jew native to Honduras, I believe that is time to give our culture the value that deserve, Paz a Todo Israel!!!
55 |
Josh, Israel,
Thursday Jul 10, 2008
To Gilles, Israel is more than ever American's needy cousin abroad. I guess you forgot the billions that Americans give to Israel every year to prop the government up. I live in Israel, and the only reason that Israel has modernized is that Israelis spend half of their time in the U.S., Europe, or Asia. You still have to go into a bank here to meet with someone personally to conduct many transactions, like 1970s America. The small size of the country means that retail goods from the outside world are either unavailable or incredibly expensive. Quick, find me a lime here.
56 |
Ricardo,
Thursday Jul 10, 2008
Most famous non-Israeli Sefardi Comedian? Hank Azaria, look around we are everywhere.
57 |
Ashley Perry,
Thursday Jul 10, 2008
#56 Ricardo
Frank Azaria is Sephardi and Jerry Seinfeld's mother was Halabi.
But my point is, both of them parrot the Ashkenazi-centric line in comedy. Seinfeld only relates to his mother in a 'Yiddische mama' type of way and Azaria's Simpsons Jewish characters are straight from the Shtetl, although his French character in 'Along Came Polly' was classic!
58 |
Mikey, New York,
Thursday Jul 10, 2008
#57 You beat me to it, I was about to say that Hank Azaria's comedy, despite the Greek Ladino-speaking backgrund of his parents, when he does Jewish shtick, it is more Ashkenazi-influenced than anything else. People who know who he is, often assume that he is of New York Italian background. I think I saw him once on one of the late night talk shows and he basically had to explain what a Sephardic Jew was to the bemusement of the host (can't remmeber if it was Leno or O'Brien) and they acted like it was part of the joke. But what is Sephardi/MizraHi comedy anyway? Is it "Joha stories"?
59 |
Mikey, New York,
Thursday Jul 10, 2008
Look, I'm Ashkenazi 3d gen Brooklynite myself, but lived & went to school with many Syrian Jews, lived in Israel (ex-wife Iraqi) & like to think of myself as an honorary Sephardi/Mizrahi (even if I'm often a token Ashkenazi at various simhot). But it still gets me annoyed everytime I have to EXPLAIN, whether to Jewish or non-Jewish people,who sephardic people are. I had a conversation recently with a coworker who remarked that Hebrew and German were similar languages. I had to explain the diffs between Yiddish & Hebrew, and then I had to explain what Ladino was and other Jewish dialects
60 |
Mikey, NYC,
Thursday Jul 10, 2008
Maybe I was being pedantic, but then, as I elucidated the differences, explaining that Yidddish is a Germanic language mixed with Hebrew, and Hebrew is a Semitic language (I could see their eyes glazing over, just because one of them made the mistake of saying "German and Hebrew are similar, right?" they were subjected to this lecture). I then got around to mentioning Ladino. Another coworker seemed even more perplexed, she said..."Spanish Jews..never heard of that--NOW THAT'S FUNNY!" and then she thought she made a wisecrack and said, "why don't they call it YIDino?" Some people never get it!
61 |
steven,
Friday Jul 11, 2008
the israelis in the movie are based on this old Saturday Night Live sketch
[ Link to page ]
62 |
Eli B., Brooklyn, NY,
Monday Jul 14, 2008
1) Nobody should be patronizing films associated with Adam Sandler, Will Ferrel, Eddie Murphy, or any of these other so-called 'comedians' who cater purely to Idiot America and it's satellites worldwide. How such a movie inspired such an in-depth article is quite #$@%^ing beyond me. Even Jon Stewart is resorting to prop comedy now (can you say "Nuked the Fridge"?)
2) On the whole I agree with Serge. This is purely a demographics issue, and we should stop whining, like Sen Gramm says. Also, Americans are morons, Americans Jews put the "American" part first, ergo, we shouldn't expect too much.
63 |
Eli B., Brooklyn, NY,
Monday Jul 14, 2008
...Of course I'm not referring to observant, "modern" Ashkenazim who tend to acknowledge and even sometimes appreciate their Sephardic brethren (especially those exposed to them at a young age at rare places like Flatbush Yeshivah).
3) grows out of 2). I would argue that most comedians are Jews more divorced from their roots, and are not that 'observant'. As there are few Sephardic communities existing outside of the Orthodox paradigm, that may explain why there are less Sephardi comedians. Those that do exist (Vanessa Hidary, Dan Ahdoot, Sacha Baron-Cohen) grew up outside their communities.
64 |
Eli B., Brooklyn, NY,
Monday Jul 14, 2008
...Not judging anyone here, just trying to draw something out from a pretty obvious - to me - correlation.
65 |
Eli B., Brooklyn, NY,
Monday Jul 14, 2008
Also, let's not forget the beloved Don Francisco (aka Mario Luis Kreutzberger Blumenfeld) host of popular Univision Spanish variety show "Sabado Gigante." This man is the funniest person on broadcast television (otherwise, Colbert takes the cake.)
...How's THAT for irony, fellow Sephardim?
66 |
Eli B., Brooklyn, NY,
Monday Jul 14, 2008
Re Velazquez: it is the sort of elitism that you are espousing that has marginalized and indeed decimated Spagnoli/panish and Portuguese communities worldwide. The Mizrahi/Levantine (Dr. Pool's term, as I hope Mr. Velaqzquez knows) tradition is very much related to the Spanish one, because, as you well know, the lingua franca of the people who later spoke Ladino used to be Judeo-Arabic, still the lingua franca of many "Mizrahiim". They can - and some do - claim that their tradition is more authentic.
How SAD that these two groups STILL do not acknowledge, interact, and learn from one another.
67 |
Yehudha, Jerusalem,
Wednesday Jul 16, 2008
1)Not all Ladino speaking people used to speak Judeo-Arabic. 2)Those that did spoke a different Judeo-Arabic than Mizrahi communities today. (the similarities might be only coincidental in some cases) 3) Why would that make their tradition more authentic?
Yes there are similarities between Sephardic and Mizrahic communities, as there are between Ashkenazim and Seph., but they are not the same.
What makes you believe that "these two (actually there are many Mizrahi groups, relatively unrelated to eachother) still do not acknowledge, inteact and learn from one another"??
68 |
Eli B., Brooklyn, NY,
Thursday Jul 17, 2008
1) Well, of course not, because Ladino culture spread. My point was, before the original Spanish-speaking/Ladino-speaking Jews spoke Spanish, the spoke Arabic.
2) Even though the two Judeo-Arabics spoken by Mizrahiim and proto-Ladinoists may have been very different, my understanding of Arabic is that even knowing some of it allows one a cursory knowledge of written Arabic. There is the link: the ability of the two groups to read and generate art in the same language and to understand many rabbinic works in their original language (such as those of Maimonides).
69 |
Eli B., Brooklyn, NY,
Thursday Jul 17, 2008
3) The ability I just mentioned would probably be the basis for such a claim. However, I never said I supported this notion, merely that they could make the same claim Mr. Velazquez just did, arrogantly I might add.
4) This whole exchange here is what makes me believe it. Seph. and Mizrachim are many times content living within their own spheres. Exiles from Spain brought a big part of their legal and linguistic traditions to the Mizrachiim. This is not readily acknowledged by either group. We have more in common with each other than with Ashkenazim I'd suspect, even if we are not the same.
70 |
Yehudha Jerusalem,
Thursday Jul 31, 2008
I think the reasons why some sepharadim react strongly against being confused with Mizrahim is because it gets tiring; People think that if I'm sephardic I must be a big fan of Qabbala, I must be darkskinned, I must have all these weird superstitions, etc. They think that if I'm Sephardic, I must go by the rulings of Obadya Yosef, who isn't even sephardic. Whenever you go to a Jewish bookstore to ask for a sephardic siddur they show you all kinds of Israeli Mizrahi siddurim. All this means that the Sephardi heritage is disappearing and that is very frustrarting for sepharadim.
71 |
Honorary Sfaradi, Paris,
Thursday Jul 31, 2008
If I remember correctly, the first American Jews were Sfaradim from Recife, Brasil.
As a Russian-descended Ashkenasi engaged to a Moroccan-descended Sfaradi, I urge those Sephardim and Mizrahim here to speak up but not let (justified) complaints overwhelm the whole:
We finally have a country in which all may be represented, Sfaradi-Mizrahi political participation has been substantial ever since Sfaradim-Mizrahim swung the vote towards Begin, and the ignorance of some American Jews should not obscure the fact that we are one people, one nation, one soul, and our heritage is Israel.
72 |
Eli B., Brooklyn, NY,
Thursday Aug 07, 2008
"Yehudha" #70 (if you're still there, and if that is how you spell your name) - but disbelief in Qabbalah is not something exclusive to the group you call Sepharadim and I call Spanish and Portugeuse. The reality is Mizra7i culture did not remain static and was very much influenced by Sephardic ones, which by the late 13th Century was very much in favor of the Qabballah, even if later the S&P communities did not buy it.
73 |
Eli B., Brooklyn, NY,
Thursday Aug 07, 2008
Moreover, it was rabbis with Ashkenazic origins who thought up and promoted the Qabbalah and cast down the Maimonidean position, which nobody today seems to point out. More-moreover, the Yemenites/R' Kaphe7 also do not hold stock by the Qabballah.
I understand your frustration, but really, the S&P and Spagnoli communities have mostly themselves to blame for the sorry state of their culture and communities. Why haven't they flourished like what you call Mizra7i communities? You're a minority. It sucks - I know, being a Sephardi/Mizra7i hybrid by your standards. Deal with it.
74&nbs |