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Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
Rosner's Domain: What really happened in Gaza? that's a good questionPosted by SHMUEL ROSNER
Comments: 75      Follow Rosner's Domain on Twitter! / Join me on Facebook! A long New Yorker article is asking What really happened in Gaza during the Israeli attacks? Key paragraph: From the beginning, there was a dispute about who among the dead and wounded qualified as a "civilian." Some police officers in Gaza had been recruited from the military wing of Hamas, but the Israelis regarded them all as Hamas apparatchiks. In several instances, armed drones killed children who were on rooftops. Were they "spotters," as the Israelis speculated, or children at play, as human-rights workers in Gaza contended? Such questions demonstrate the difficulty that any urban conflict poses in separating actual combatants from innocent civilians. They also underscore the biases that had taken root in each camp: the Israeli belief that Hamas terrorists and the Gazan people were one and the same; the Gazan tendency to support any act of resistance against the Israelis, no matter how self-defeating it might be. The article is "balanced" in the sense that it offers no answers. It does not endorse neither Hamas' claims nor Israel's. This makes it an interesting and illuminating article for those who do not know much about the Gaza conflict, but quite useless for those who do. That's a compliment.
1 | Chris USA, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
In hindsight I think it was a mistake for Israel to invade Gaza, but had Israel finished the job it would now be at war with most of the world instead of merely fighting political initiatives. The bias that has been revealed internationally could have just as easily been revealed militarily. The only event that prevented this was the Fed's ability to prevent the dollar from collasping during the financial crisis. The world would have blamed Israel as a pretext to militarize and goim would be standing where jews now dwell. This is important not to overlook. The existential threat is real.
2 | Dr. Dan USA, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
Like the bombing of Lebanon, Operation Cast Lead was a huge military success in that it reminded the Arabs of the price they will pay for making war against Israel. Neither Lebanon nor Gaza can recover even from the limited air strikes. Imagine how much worse full-out war would be for them. The vaunted Iraqi army collapsed with the US invasion. The propoganda battle is so fierce because the Arabs lost the war and were afraid to fight openly and die. Israel showed it is willing to use its military and surprised the world with new technology for urban warfare.
3 | Dr. Dan USA, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
Like the bombing of Lebanon, Operation Cast Lead was a huge military success in that it reminded the Arabs of the price they will pay for making war against Israel. Neither Lebanon nor Gaza can recover even from the limited air strikes. Imagine how much worse full-out war would be for them. The vaunted Iraqi army collapsed with the US invasion. The propoganda battle is so fierce because the Arabs lost the war and were afraid to fight openly and die. Israel showed it is willing to use its military and surprised the world with new technology for urban warfare.
4 | jack canada, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
If children are "innocently playing on the roof", during a war, they are obviously being used as human shields. What a pile of manure we get from Hamastan "aid" workers. What are they aiding? This is not an unbiased article as long as it quotes such obvious rot from such obviously biased sources. When the bombs start falling, the children immediately to the basement or shelter. They are so good at digging tunnels, let them hide their treasures there. If they live they live, if they die they die. Stop the rockets, and live.
5 | Boris Europe, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
In the long term, the killing of women and children whether they be regarded as 'collateral damage', 'human shields' or the relatives of terrorists will only contribute to more hatred and threats directed at Israel. Gaza proved all of this. The killing of a child, be it a 'spotter' or not, is something so utterly inhumane and disgusting that no sane human being can justify it. The badwill for Israel is enormous and Israels friends and allies are falling out by the minute.
6 | Joseph London, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
If Hamas is legally classified as a terrorist organisation, then police trained to enforce Hamas rule in Gaza would seem to be terrorists as well. Would we not classify the Nazi police in Germany as part of the Nazi regime? or the Soviet police as part of the Communist regime ? The problem of separating Hamas supporters from civilians is that terrorists don't have 'name, rank and serial number'. Terrorists are usually also civilians. Israel claims to have killed 900 militants, Hamas claims only 48 were militants !
7 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
There will never be a definitive and correct answer to the question. I would not be surprised if one or two of our daily bloggers who always have the answer without regard to the facts provide final conculusions soon. I agree with Jack that when the IAF is dropping hundreds of thousands of leaflets. and a ground invasion is under way, that it defies logic that children would be playing on the roof. I also know that there were no attempts to review ID on the fatalities, so the question of who is a combatant and who is a civilian was largely left to the testimony of Hamas activists.
8 | Ronald USA, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
Chris, Saying 'I think it was a mistake for Israel to invade Gaza' has to be backed up by facts, which you didn't do. The reason that the invasion WAS NOT a mistake is because it is impossible for a democratically elected government to tolerated thousands of missile attacks on her citizens. Any government of any nation would be voted out of office by the people who are being hit. The mistake, if any, is that they didn't hit Hamas harder. Everyone should understand by now that Israel will be criticized regardless of what she does, or doesn't do.
9 | Daran, UK, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
Mike so you "know" that no tissue samples were took, or that you know that any identification will always be disputed. I suspect the latter. It's right to say that many questions will remaim unanswered because of the "fog" of war. However some of the questions to which the IDF could answer today also remain unanswered. I have mention some of them in previous posts . This veil and the refusal to allow press into Gaza. provide "ammunition" to those who wish to impune the IDF. Goldstone has prompted Israel to appoint reviews and possible commission. Lets hope those questions that can get answers
10 | benson Boston, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
This is a phony debate. If country other than Israel were involved there would be no discussion of
civilian casualties. Indeed ShiÂ’ites and Sunnis wage genocidal warfare against each other
Turkey bombs Kurdish civilian,. Russia invades Chechnia and Georgia, China slaughters hundreds in Tibet, and there is no moral outrage. There are no moral issues to discuss. Rockets were deliberately fired at Israeli civilians and Israel defended itself, end of story. Engaging in any “soul searching” only gives the false impression that there is credence to these accusations.
11 | Ande-Modiiin, Israel, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
Balanced? If you cut off your right foot and wear a patch on your right eye. Under the veneer of so called sophisticated journalism the article pretends to be balanced but it quotes biased left wing organizations with a history of anti-Israel bias. No proof of their claims is asked for nor any given. Casualty figures are thrown around like a football game with no sources. In short its a hatchet job disguised as journalism. The sort of thing you see in the New York Times all the time. Cast lead was not a mistake. Withdrawing from Gaza was the real mistake.
12 | Igor, Germany, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
In the Kosovo War 1999 NATO forces destroyed a police headquarters in Belgrade (which is btw. as far from Kosovo as Cairo is from Gaza). No-one, including the Serbs, ever suggested that it was an attack on a civilian target.
13 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
Daran. I cannot presume to speak for Israel. However, I think a big problem here is that the investigations you speak of would honour the accusers and legitimize the process. In doing so it is reasonable for Israel to feel that it is being subjected to scrutiny which is not known to any other country. Those who support Israel's incursion as righteous following the rocket attacks, always will, and those who oppose Israeli action as disproportionate will never believe that Israel acted appropriately. Having said all that, I think Israel will just let the Goldstone Report run its course,
14 | Hershel, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
Israel's mistake in Gaza was in its cowardly retreat before their job was completely done. Tzippy Livni'r rushing off to the West to gain assurances that Israel's security would be taken care of was a joke. What "assurance" did Israel receive? The Goldstone Report.
15 | David USA, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
OK, so we forget about the children on the roof - apparently it was OK to smash them. But what about the 1000s of chickens on their farm summarily executed by the IDF ? Were they also terrorists, spotters or what ? - Or the flour mill ? Perhaps there were "spotter mice" there? Or more likely all this just served the fun of wanton destruction, for which the IDF is famous. ?!?!
16 | Daran, UK, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
Such investigations honor Israel by proving that is now and has always sort to be a nation defined by its very hign judicial standards and conduct. The whole world knows that Hamas will not ever be the sort of party which could be self correcting and hold itself to account. That no nation would allow its citizens to be the subject of rocket attacks across a boarder with hostile "enitity" is a given for me. I await the conculsions of Israeli investigations and commisions (?) which in themselves negate ICC. Then let us turn to see what Hamas has done to bring to account those who commited crimes.
17 | Fred New York, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
I read this article too. It is pretty sad that an article in the New Yorker can be more fair, accurate and objective than a UN "fact finding" mission and headed by a self-serviing veteran judge. What I was struck by in the article is the extent to which the Palestinian people in Gaza are their own worst enemy. They vote for Hamas knowing it will only lead to more bloodshed. They support the abduction of Shalit, but then come to identify with him, yet do nothing to free this innocent victim. They attack Israel, yet they know it will seal Gaza border and they will lose their jobs in Israel.
18 | Dav Lev, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
One poster says had Israel's campaign been more severe, the criticism we are now witnessing
would have evolved into a worldwide joint (military) attack against the Jewish state. Considering
decades of Arab animosity, and the world's contempt for Israel, I doubt any county would launch such an attack. Israel's 400 nukes (suspected) are a great deterrent. Even Russia, knows better.
No NATO country would join in. Israel is the 5th mightiest power on the planet guys. Perhaps Israel reacted too harshly. I have posted for years, that when 1 Kassam..Israel should fire 10 rockets in response.
19 | Dav Lev, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
Israel cannot win to lose. It is really caught between a rock and a hardplace. Now we are hearing that the PA has rockets with a 60km range..(can hit TV). This is far more dangerous than the Kassams and Grads. So if a rocket is fired..then what? Israel will have the same problems..collateral damage, disproportionate force., canned statements. Israel can do nothing, hit launch sites, more large operations, or invade massively and re-occupy. Sooner or later Israel will have to decide an action that stops all this. My guess: cut the Strip in 3pts.control it..root out Hamas.
20 | Daran, UK, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
Igor. I supported the action to bomb the Belgrade Federal Republic of Yugoslavia MUP Special Police Headquarters. Which by then was housing "arkans tigers". I accept that such targeting requires extra explaination, I think it was provided during Nato press briefings if however you disagree , I would be happy to exchange opinion and info. Does getting a gun and a badge from Hamas make police and offices targets for attack at 11;30 am, It may well. Could other options been choosen such an attack in the dead of night when less civilians might be exposed, it's possible, no info on why leaves ???
21 | Sally - U.S.A., Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
Israel should investigate itself because under Article 17 of the ICC if a country is investigating itself, the ICC cannot. (It does not have jurisdiction.) If the general assembly by a majority passes a resolution, it can bring the case to the ICC. Given the UNHRC declared Israel guilty before the Goldstone committee began its investigation, Israel would do no better at the ICC. Hopefully, Netanyahu will have his attorneys check this out. Sometimes in life when people are given a lemon, it is a good idea to make lemonade.
22 | LK, Geneva, Switzerland, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
We would not be having this discussion if Israel hadn't abandoned Gaza a few years ago - what did we gain? Let's not forget the good will that Israel tried to establish by leaving functioning greenhouses and farms - an opportunity for the Palestinians to actually earn a decent living. The greenhouses were torched and the terrorists ratcheted up the smuggling and the missile attacks. The world should stop analyzing what the IDF did in Gaza and take a cold, hard look how the Palestinians have squandered an opportunity for peace and economic progress.
23 | Richard Pearce, Calgary Alberta, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
I read the article, and found it wasn't 'balanced'. It implies that the deaths of the family on the beach was an isolated incident, ignoring all those others killed and wounded in Gaza by the IDF in the days and weeks leading up to the capture of Shalit. It ignores all the attempts Hamas made to find a compromise with Fatah, it uses highly emotive language when talking about attacks on Israel, and cold language when talking about attacks on Gaza. All in all, a fine example of how to write a 'balanced' article that uses all sorts of techniques to make an emotive case for one side only.
24 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
David. Israel always seems to come up on the short end of the moral equivalency stick. Thousands of rockets without any guidance systems aimed wantonly at civilians, terrorizing women and school children is O.K. but the chickens is the issue to-day. I can say this as a certainty. If Hamas had not incited the Israelis with years of firing rockets into a sovereign country, there would have been no reprisal. You cannot start a war and then tell your enemy what is appropriate conduct during hostilities.
25 | Sally - U.S.A., Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
The what ifs do not matter! If you read haaretz, England & France have been telling Israel to investigate itself because the generally assembly is meeting tomorrow. If the generally assembly by a majority passes a resolution, it can bring it to the ICC. The way that Israel can get the case out of the ICC's jurisdiction, is to investigate itself. (See article 17 of the ICC) Otherwise, if the case is brought & Israel is found guilty, whenever the people travel outside of Israel, they can be apprehended.
26 | Richard Pearce, Calgary Alberta, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
Mike, if you're going to argue that rockets justify Israel's actions in Gaza, I have a question for you. How do you justify the shelling of the UN school in Rafah? Oh, wait, I'd better give you the date for that, April 3 2001. Its hard to call something a reprisal, when the reprisal takes place before the inciting incident, isn't it. Now, if you were arguing that the rockets were a reprisal for Israeli attacks on Palestinians (or even just Gaza), then you'd have a better case. Israel was kicking the dog long before the dog bit.
27 | Mike Feldman Canada, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
#23. Like you just did.
28 | Ronald USA, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
David, please stop with the 1000 dead chickens, I'm dying from laughter. Maybe your sense of values needs some adjustment. I suggest you bring up charges against Israel for crimes against poultry.
29 | JD, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
When UN buildings are bombed and no media crews allowed that speaks loudly to everyone.
30 | Ronald USA, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
#23 Richard Pearce, common on Richard. You are too obvious in your bias against Israel. Shalit was captured in 2006, followed shortly thereafter by the Lebanon war. Aren't we talking about Cast Lead in Gaza about 10 months ago? A sure sign that a person is arguing emotionally, without reason or logic, is when a different war in a different country is injected into the debate. Let me cut to the chase. Israel has the right to defend her citizens against attack from a foreign territory. The Pals started the war. They do not have the right to determine how Israel defends herself.
31 | Infidel, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
The muslims fought a gallant fight the Islamist way. Islam's "respect" for their women and children played
a significent part in their "art" of warfare and in fact served as the "Shield of Islam" that's an honorable duty
blessed by their "compassionate" Alla. We in the West have a different set of values but we are promised
that Jihad will change our ways when we are converted to Islam.
32 | Infidel, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
The muslims fought a gallant fight the Islamist way. Islam's "respect" for their women and children played
a significent part in their "art" of warfare and in fact served as the "Shield of Islam" that's an honorable duty
blessed by their "compassionate" Alla. We in the West have a different set of values but we are promised
that Jihad will change our ways when we are converted to Islam.
33 | lydia, Wednesday Nov 04, 2009
24 Israel and morals? roflmao. "If Hamas hadn't incited Israels with years of firing rockets" The chickens made you do it, excuse! Israel on the other hand never incited them with its illegal occupation, the indiscriminate bombing, trial by missiles, slaughter of innocents and the incarceration without trial of all including the legally elected members of the their Parliament as well as siege by land air and sea in blatant violation of Int.Law. Even now as we speak you illegal settlement expansion etc continues despite pleas from POTUS EU, UN et al . Sovereign country my tuchas ..Not!.
34 | Phillip Mortmitzer, Wednesday Nov 04, 2009
Dr. Dan,
"The Arabs lost the war"? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the war in Iraq is still being fought. It is one thing to win the 'battle' to take over a country (in this case, Iraq), but quite another to win the 'war'.
I, an Israeli, believe that Israel has lost it's soul. This is not who we are. We shouldn't be colonising Palestinian territory, killing thousands of civilians, and spending the next 3 years trying to explain ourselves to the international security. How can any decent religous country do such things?
Phillip,
Australia
35 | King Kong, Wednesday Nov 04, 2009
lydia>Sally>>>What a difference!! Compare the articulate blogs of Sally a Lady with the mentally retarded venimous nonsense of lydia a Fishwife and it renews your faith in the female species.
36 | King Kong, Wednesday Nov 04, 2009
lydia>Sally>>>What a difference!! Compare the articulate blogs of Sally a Lady with the mentally retarded venimous nonsense of lydia a Fishwife and it renews your faith in the female species.
37 | Johnson USA, Wednesday Nov 04, 2009
Modern warfare WWII style postulated "A nation in arms" with victory requiring decimation and demoralization of civilian populations. Now there is a pretense that there can be sterile operations and civilians rather than targets as an integral part of the enemy operation, are "collateral." Nonsense. Look at the US and the UK in WWII with the firebombing of Dresden, and the US firebombing of Tokyo. These attacks levied greater destruction than Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which also were intended to demoralize. Get real. War involves death and calamitous destruction. Or else there is no end.
38 | lydia, Wednesday Nov 04, 2009
6 Hamas is legal! Israel painted Arafat as corrupt and daubed Abbas/Fatah with the same brush. In a classic 'divide and conquer' Israeli spawns Hamas, but it has instead morphed into a formidable opponent to Israel illegal occupation and subjugation. the Palestinian perceive Hamas as incorruptible and elects them in a legally a supervised US election. Not happy Israel/Bush predictably sets out to circumvent the US election and to punish the Palestinians. Hamas MPs are all incarcerated, incl women and children. The Soviet police if my memory serves me right, were actually jewish Bolsheviks!
39 | michael landauer, toronto, Wednesday Nov 04, 2009
I agree with Jack and Mike from Canada. Putting children on rooftops in Gaza during an Israeli military operation is precisely using human shields.
40 | Sharona, Wednesday Nov 04, 2009
The essential difference is that in time of war our Israeli children are in shelters, Palestinians put theirs on rooftops as spotters or deliberately so they will die and become fodder for the Palestinian propaganda machine. That children have been used as suicide bombers is undeniable. There is no such thing as a terrorist police officer-that is a contradiction in terms. As for the family on the beach even the so-called human rights activists that investigated had no proof it was an Israeli shell, Israel provided evidence that it was NOT. It was most likely buried Hamas ordnance.
41 | Terry - Eilat, Israel, Wednesday Nov 04, 2009
I can only suggest that all of you re-read accounts of the Sri Lanka gov't.'s successful operation against the Tamil terrorists. Had our Operation Cast Lead been similarly successful, we would not be having this discussion.
42 | AP, Wednesday Nov 04, 2009
Actually , I always send my children to rooftops when there is a war on ,
Its much safer there.
43 | lydia, Wednesday Nov 04, 2009
40 You were never a child. Climbing on roofs to watch lightning storms, despite being told how dangerous it was. The children would have been riveted, scared sh**less as the deadly phosphorus canisters floated down, parachutes swirling, flechettes, shells exploding etc. Israeli terrorists habitually shoots unarmed civilians without a grain of compunction, only because these killings generated so much bad publicity that you'd prefer to slither away and blame the children or the chickens. Hamas was legitimately elected in a US supervised election so their forces are equally legitimate.
44 | Matt, London, Wednesday Nov 04, 2009
I did notice the other day that the US is beginning its own investigation into war crimes committed during the Sri Lankan offensive against the LTTE. Is this a good way to fight the UNHRC's anti-Israel obsession? In comparison to Sri Lanka's war, Cast Lead will look like a big happy picnic!
45 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Wednesday Nov 04, 2009
#43. The logic in your first sentence is absolutely pitiful. "Hey kids there's a war going on, so be very careful when you go up on the roof to watch the thunderstorms" Ya right! Have you now stopped advocating for lion and camel rights? I notice they're missing to-day. Please bring them back to JP blogs, you haven't reached your lying quota yet to-day.
46 | Matt, London, UK, Wednesday Nov 04, 2009
#43: "Hamas was legitimately elected in a US supervised election so their forces are equally legitimate" - well, if your definition of "legitimately elected" involves winning the majority of seats and then murdering / kneecapping / expelling the opposition representatives, then I suppose you're right.
And if they do legitimately represent the people of Gaza, then surely the people of Gaza should face the consequences when their "legitimate representatives" wage war on a neighbouring country? They voted for war, and they got war. Can't have it both ways.
47 | Steve B., USA, Wednesday Nov 04, 2009
Israel "screwed the pooch" in that they did not finish the job. If Israel intends to ever co-exist with the "Palestinain" people, she has to SOUNDLY defeat them first.
48 | moron galut, Thursday Nov 05, 2009
the jews lost because they did not win
49 | lydia, Thursday Nov 05, 2009
46 Nothing to do with IF I am right but to do with FACTS. Israel can't 'delegitimatize' the elected representatives of the 'neighbouring country' because they don't like them. Palestine is under occupation and Gaza is under siege, so much for your 'neighboring country' bs or the independence of Gaza. It's also legitimate and expected that people would resist the subjugation adn exploitation of their people. The jews in the Warsaw ghetto mounted a resisted why shouldn't Hamas. But you did admit one truism, Palestinians voted for Hamas and Israel intended to slaughter them for it hence the war.
50 | JBond, Thursday Nov 05, 2009
One thing Israel has not learned that the Arabs have - Public Relations beats any war, it is Presception Not Truth that does the damage. Gobels said it "Tell the people enough lies often enough and the lies become truth and believable".
Israel should be telling the world over and over again the truth - never letting up
There is a saying when dealing with Cowards such as Hamas, Hessblah and Religous nuts. Kill them all and let God sort them out.
51 | lydia, Thursday Nov 05, 2009
45 Feldman, You never had parents. You were probably left on some door step. A parent yelling directives 'don't go on the roof, it is dangerous' would have fallen on deaf ears in the middle of a fire storm. Your lack of emotions for the dead women and children or animals shot at point blank range is so evident, 4,000 civilians, 31,000 chickens and 35% of the eggs, you claim to be 3x times too high. You don't deny the wanton slaughter and murder, just the numbers. Got caught on camera, "not all they piety nor wit..", 'By thy deeds shall thou be known' a despicable legacy not unlike your past.
52 | Genuine Isaeli Jew, Thursday Nov 05, 2009
#34 Phillip. I presume the last sentence of your blog is directed to the "decent" Islamic countries whose
"ethics" are displayed around the world as a religion whose insatiable diet is bloodshed.The war being fought in Iraq is an Islam war muslims killing each other as in the past, at present and guaranteed in the
future.How can Israel "colonise" it's own Jewish land? Such an assertion is absurd.
53 | David J Feiger Oakland Park, Fl USA, Thursday Nov 05, 2009
What happened in Gaza? The first video from the hospitals showed men in military uniforms as wounded but the order went out to change clothes. The horror of innocents wounded, maimed and killed is all the worse when the direct result of murderers hiding behind the Skirts of women. Gaza had as many casualities in two car bombings in Baghdad one day.
54 | Sharona Jerusalem Israel, Thursday Nov 05, 2009
#43 Leaving children on rooftops in time of war is parental child abuse. Are Palestinian children that stupid? Why do Israeli children understand that the place to be is in the shelter? If the Palestinians are really raising children who are that stupid they really have no future. We don't habitually shoot any civilians. Pointless and achieves nothing. It is the Palestinians who habitually shoot at Israelis. chickens? Actually Hamas rockets have hit Israeli chicken coops. And aren't you worried about the Pali suicide horses, loaded with explosives and sent to the Israel border?
55 | Richard Goldstone - London, UK, Thursday Nov 05, 2009
Dear Israel and Jews worldwide: It is with a deep sense of regret, embarrassment and obligation that I take the stand (as so many stood before me when I was a Judge) so that I be allowed in my own words to apologize for the mistakes I've made and for the dishonest way in which my report was changed to fit a deranged political agenda by some of who I thought were colleagues and friends. I was blinded and blindsided. It is too late unfortunately to undo all the damage I have caused, however, it is not to late to mitigate further damage. I stand here to say damn the report. (Ok so I'm not RG)
56 | lydia, Thursday Nov 05, 2009
50 You heard the one "better to be thought a fool etc, right?". Let's do some 'jewish maths' to work out your ."Kill them all and let God sort them out". How long did it take Adolf and his SS to dispatch 6 mil to for God to sort them out? Let use the same equation to work out how long it would take your murderous lot to eliminate 2billion Muslims. Not to forget your cowards shooting defenseless women and children, even the caged animals weren't exempt from the savagery. These atrocities have been going on for decades now however the Arabs can broadcast Israel despicable crimes in a flash.
57 | lydia, Thursday Nov 05, 2009
54 The children are, as you say, stupid, so you decide they have no future and slaughter them. There must be a jewish institution that teaches all this bs or are you all cloned from Gollum. Your daily 'trial by missiles' and your last incursion into Gaza was what?a tea party? If you occupied my land by now I wouldn't be just launching Katusha but some serious guided missiles like the one that took out your ship during the last Lebanon war. We know they have the missiles, you know they have the missiles, you are being played by the guys who brought us Chess and the Iraq quagmire. Talk Peace!
58 | Ariel, Thursday Nov 05, 2009
Lydia, you are so loose with the facts that you must be an Arab troll or working for J Street. You write "talk peace" but you really mean "take Israel apart piece by piece".
59 | lydia, Thursday Nov 05, 2009
53 The World knows Israel has no compunction about shooting defenseless Palestinians civilians and have been doing so for decades. We watch your lot of hoodlums attack farmers, shoot fishermen, women and children on the beaches, haul the aged and infirm from their homes, shoot unarmed women and children at point blank range but you would have us believe Hamas hides behind the women Skirts because they believe these Skirts are anti ballistic domes that will protect them from Israels wp, dime missiles, cluster bombs etc? Better get some of these Skirts, you'll need them when you engage Iran.
60 | Tom, US, Thursday Nov 05, 2009
Lydia, as I understand it Lieberman and Netanyahu wear those skirts on a regular basis. Ariel Sharon used to love wearing his skirt. But not quite as well as he loved it when he bent over and got shagged from behind. The Israeli males love of Palestinian women's skirts is probably why the killed so many during their last terrorist assault on Gaza.
61 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Thursday Nov 05, 2009
lydia. Maybe your were brought up be dingos, but I think I covered my family tree (at your request) a few days ago. I don't claim your lies, they exist de facto. What about the forgotton camels and lions that were on the front page of your drivel not so long ago. Tom funny you should mention Lieberman and Netanyahu, when Arafat was a fudge packer of some repute. back to lydia. i guess the 4,000 civilian number is your new standard. That lie has become boring. Maybe in your next post you should raise it to 8567. Has a better ring to it.
62 | Shlomo, Israel, Thursday Nov 05, 2009
Lydia, you must be on the rag, so wear pants and not a skirt.
Of course, Israel has murdered millions of Pals, right? They just go a spring right back again.
Give it a rest, Lydia. You might pop a vien if you exagerate too much.
63 | Daran, UK, Thursday Nov 05, 2009
Ton US , is this another Tom? You I may disagree on many point about Israel but I have not read you being so pathetic as to engage in the sort post #60. have you lost the ability to composed reasoned argument which I saw you seek to present in the past. Ohh "Sharon getting shagged" you must be a real hardcore radical. lol
64 | Cember, Thursday Nov 05, 2009
If Tom's juvenile innuendos and obscenity, and Lydia's openly anti-Semitic statements (eg "The Soviet police if my memory serves me right, were actually jewish Bolsheviks!" #38), to say nothing of her manifold instances of factual error can be passed through by the reviewers, why doesn't the JP permit immediate, unreviewed posting to its blogs. It would certainly enliven the discussions, and I don't see how there could be any posts less tasteful than Tom's image of a transvestite Sharon, gaily enjoying anal penetration.
65 | Don Juan, Friday Nov 06, 2009
Tom you are truely a romantic. We now have an insight into your style of romancing lydia in your special
expertise of "shagging" That skill no doubt perfected by you practising on her chickens.
66 | Polka Homolka, Friday Nov 06, 2009
Tom does your mother wear her favourite skirt when you practise your shagging on her and does not it make lydia jealous or are you both professional "shaggers" and "shaggees"
67 | , Friday Nov 06, 2009
68 | jonah Viet-Nam, Friday Nov 06, 2009
Vote for the terrorists,pay for the terrorists.
69 | Tom, US, Monday Nov 09, 2009
See Lydia ? We hit a real raw nerve with these cross dressing fags and their love of wearing Palestinian womens skirts. Judging by their responses I would have to say that we are right on target regarding their motivation to kill so many unarmed Palestinian women. Don't at all be surprised to see all these queers in their Palestinian womens skirts at their next gay pride parade in Israel.
70 | Polka Homolka, Monday Nov 09, 2009
See lydia ? You and Tom have created your own monster and it keeps coming back to haunt you.As to
queers you will see it in the lifestyle of arab men and in their culture as is universally known and common knowledge. Tom being a closet arab qualifies as both "shagger" and "shaggee"
71 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Monday Nov 09, 2009
I mean really, Tom brags of his decades of covert intelligence work and the contacts he has including inside Israel. Never mind the fact that his posts singularly defy what is reliably reported on a daily basis. Reading his posts one would certainly wonder about his intelligence gathering methods. Maybe one of his favourite methods is saying: Come on fag, give it up. This would be highly persuasive and effective. And like every spy who has trouble coming in from the cold, he has sought the affections of a tender woman-lydia, his soul mate. Now that Don Adams has passed away, I think Tom is auditioning for the role of Maxwell Smart in a new Get Smart movie as the hapless. Jew hating, homophoibc but lovable idiot spy. Of course lydia will be cast as Agent 99.
72 | Tom, US, Monday Nov 09, 2009
Yes and Feldman brags about being a dumb ass while spouting alarmist messages that have no basis in reality. Such as nukes being pumped out at Qom when the reality on the ground is that no centrifuges are even hooked up and there is no fissile material at Qom. Now if the mindless moron had made comment regarding the 4 nukes that Iran bought from the Ukraine in 2001 he might actually have something tangible to alarm all you psychopaths with.
73 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Monday Nov 09, 2009
Fellow posters. I have seen the truth thanks to Tom. Sorry for being an alarmist. Iran's intentions in setting up a nuclear enrichment facility in a heavily guarded secret location, with no possible civilian use is benign. I appreciate the kindly fashion and Tom's patience in pointing out the error of my ways. Relax, Iran would never cheat and Tom is spot on.
74 | Chris USA, Tuesday Nov 10, 2009
To: 8 | Ronald USA, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009. Shalom! It is likely that had your advice been acted upon today there would no Israel and possibly no USA either. Weighing the balance of events and providing supporting evidence is beyond the limits of 600 words. At the very minimum it would require a thesis in book form that readers could purchase and read at their leisure to adequately support my observations - something that apathetic readers would ignore. I regret to see you lose sight of the forest through the trees my friend.
75 | Mike feldman, Canada, Wednesday Nov 11, 2009
@74 Chris. Double talk, No substance
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The Israel Factor, Sep. 2009: Obama is rapidly losing favor with panel of Israeli experts
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