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Thursday May 28, 2009

Rosner's Domain: The "natural growth" game of chicken

Posted by SHMUEL ROSNER
Comments: 69
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Just to make sure, I double checked Nathan Guttman,s story, and it seems not just accurate but also fair and balanced:

[W]hen Israeli leader Benjamin Netanyahu came to Capitol Hill for a May 18 meeting after being pressed by President Obama to freeze the expansion of West Bank settlements, he was "stunned," Netanyahu aides said, to hear what seemed like a well-coordinated attack against his stand on settlements. The criticism came from congressional leaders, key lawmakers dealing with foreign relations and even from a group of Jewish members. They included Massachusetts Democrat John Kerry, who heads the Senate Foreign Relations Committee; Democrat Carl Levin of Michigan, who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee; California Democrat Howard Berman, chairman of the House Foreign Relations Committee, and California Rep. Henry Waxman, a senior Democrat.

Note that all the mentioned above are Democrats - and that Republicans, or some of them, might have a different view (they do). But as far as the majority party is concerned, I think this game is over and Congress will support the administration: no "natural growth", no "reciprocity" for settlement freeze:

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said, "He [Obama] wants to see a stop to settlements - not some settlements, not outposts, not 'natural growth' exceptions." Talking to reporters after a meeting with the Egyptian foreign minister, Ahmed Aboul Gheit, she said: "That is our position. That is what we have communicated very clearly."

Indeed, clearly. The only two arguments Netanyahu can still make are:

A.     Settlement blocks should be treated somewhat differently (It is not at all clear if this can work).

B.     Jerusalem is no settlement (he will find a receptive audience).

However, what's clear is this: in all settlements that aren’t part of the blocks, no formula other than complete freeze will be acceptable to this administration. As Herb writes (here), the freeze will hardly help Palestinians to better prepare for future statehood. Nevertheless, the Obama team believes it will help the administration convince the Arab world of Obama's sincere intentions.

The game everybody's playing here is very delicate game of chicken. I do not believe that the Obama White House have already concluded that it wanted Netanyahu to fall. Obama's aids understand that if the Israeli government crumbles, the peace process will have to wait, again. So they are trying to test how far they can go, knowing that Netanyhau will invite internal political pressure by way of showing them what he can and can’t do, but also realizing that at some point they might lose control over this game.

Netanyahu is already under immense pressure from settlers with very little sense of humor, and not much respect for the Obama phenomenon:

Religious leaders headed by the head of the Judea and Samaria Rabbis' Committee, Rabbi Dov Lior, gathered Wednesday at an unauthorized outpost slated for removal, urging IDF soldiers to refuse evacuation orders.

One needs to remember this: Netanyahu doesn't have the political power of Ariel Sharon. He can't be expected to be as bold and as daring as Sharon once was - not because he is a coward, but rather because he is smart. Being bold and losing the coalition will be plain stupid. What can Netanyahu do? He can evacuate outposts, and he can also resist some of Obama's demands. He will have to make sure, though, to pick his fights selectively. Obama doesn't enjoy the trust of Israelis the way George W. Bush did, and this can help Netanyahu convince them that the President is overreaching.

Essentially, the issues that can for Netanyahu in Israel are quite similar to those he can still use in Congress:

A.     Settlement blocks.

B.     Jerusalem.

As for "natural growth", I don't think Israelis are ready to have a big fight with the US over "new kindergartens for settler's children" (but beware, I was wrong in the past when I was making such predictions).

 

 

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1  |  Samson, Thursday May 28, 2009
"Natrual growth" is a mendacious slogan used by a mendacious government to steal more Palestinian land and build more settler units for talmudic Jewish fanatics who are hell-bent on ethnically cleansing the land of its non-Jewish inhabitants. The settlers adopt a hateful racist ideology toward non-Jews. They offer non-Jews in Israel-Palestine three choices: Water carriers and wood hewers (slaves), outright expulsion or deportation, or outright physical extermination.
2  |  Samson, Thursday May 28, 2009
"Natrual growth" is a mendacious slogan used by a mendacious government to steal more Palestinian land and build more settler units for talmudic Jewish fanatics who are hell-bent on ethnically cleansing the land of its non-Jewish inhabitants. The settlers adopt a hateful racist ideology toward non-Jews. They offer non-Jews in Israel-Palestine three choices: Water carriers and wood hewers (slaves), outright expulsion or deportation, or outright physical extermination.
3  |  Bob Fruehling USA, Thursday May 28, 2009
History has shown that "playing chicken" with Israel can be risky business.
4  |  Fred USA, Thursday May 28, 2009
What side are you on Rosner?
5  |  Joe smith Boston, Thursday May 28, 2009
Israel will be better off if she can stand alone and wean itself form any foreign entanglements. There has been to much water under the dam to go back now
6  |  Tzvi Nokam/amerikkka, Thursday May 28, 2009
Israel is the one country in the world where the catholic pope wants abortion to be legal to stop population growth. As far as the politicians who want Jewish villages stopped. Who cares what they think? Tonight we celebrate G-D giving the Torah to Moshe at Mount Sinai (before benny begins father made Sinai Judenrein). G-D gave Eretz Yisroel to the Jewish people not to amerikkkan corrupt politicians
7  |  Canadian, Ottowa, Thursday May 28, 2009
Mike Feldman, it seems that dishonesty is your best policy. I will give you the body counts, according to the Israeli human rights group, B'tselem. In 8 years of rockets by Hamas on Israeli settlements, such as Sderot, 13 Israleis were killed. During the same period, more than 4100 Palestinians were killed, and 46,000 injured. In other words you murdered nearly 400 Palestinians, mostly innocent women and children, for every Jew killed by Hamas. in plain English, this is genocide against these unfortunate people. And , like mad dogs, you keep shouting anti-Semites.Jew hater...!
8  |  True follower fo the Torha, Thursday May 28, 2009
God gave the Torah to the Children of Israel so that they may spread justice and righteousness and peace among men, not in order to foster oppression, promiscuity, corruption, murder and decadence. The present state of Israel is the greatest enemy of the Torah and God. Come and see for yourself...the promsicuity, the homosexual prostitution, the whoring behavior. Israel commits every imaginable abomination, every conceivable vice under the sun...Thhe Torah of Moses curses the state of Israel. A state sinks in vice from head to toe. so I say to the hypocrites out there...just shut up.
9  |  andy-london, Thursday May 28, 2009
#1 I agree in the sense YOU made that they [the pallis] should be given all 3 choices ,either "1" Get out of Israel "2"be deported to the desert [where they originate from ] or "3" admit they DONT belong and ask allah to take them to his paradise where they'll get their 72 virgins. [Oh I forgot they must be soaking in blood first] but as they [the hamas and fatah ] kill one another does that count?
10  |  Amarilys Pons, Thursday May 28, 2009
Get Samson and Canadian OFF THIS BOARD let them go rant and spout anti Jewish hatred on the UK Guardian board or some other rag devoted to appeasing terrorist FILTH. This is the JERUSALEM POST, not some backwater racist board for dumb hillbillies. I subscribe to the Jerusalem Post. I buy from the advertisers, and I resent the board monitors laziness at not monitoring IP addresses from anti-Jewish bigots who constantly post on these boards. These racist turds pretending to be humans have a million other internet places they can post. They do not belong anywhere near the Jerusalem post.
11  |  Christian student of the Talmud, Thursday May 28, 2009
Andy-London, these are the same choices hitler gave the Jews. Is Hitler your ultimate role model? Are you a Judeo Nazi? Do you really believe in the Talmudic concept that non-Jews were created by God as animals, and that the Almighty made them in human shapes in deference to Jews. Well, if you think that the Palestinians deserve extermination...then perhaps, according to you, the Germans, too, had a point when they did what they did more than 70 years ago.
12  |  Monotheist, Thursday May 28, 2009
ina-the God of Abraham, the God of all creation, is not a tribal god. He is the creator of all that is. This God is JUST AND HOLY. He doesn't support Askenazi East European Fascist Jews who think they have a license from God to murder, rape, steal and lie. One of His commandements is "THOUS SAHLL NOT MURDER'....not "thou shall murder and lie about it." God is not a Jewish godfather. If God had a special relationship with Jews as you claim, He would have prevented the Nazis from killing the six million! So, don't make yourself a laughing-stock.
13  |  joe smith Boston, Thursday May 28, 2009
To the hockey puck from Cananda, I was in the viet nam war we killed 2 million gooks and they killed 50k of us
14  |  Jacob Boston, Thursday May 28, 2009
Horsehockey! Clinton has joined the infamous ranks of others who have said "no more jewish growth and no more Jewish babies in this land." Do you see israel, the jewish state, telling the Arab Muslim population to not have babies? No so dont tell Jews to not have babies either. That is sick. Delilah, #1, youre a hate-agenda ignoramus who knows 2 things but then calls himself a PhD. In Judaism all people are judged not on religion or skin (we said it 1000's of years before a modern civil rights movement) or gender or "status" but on Deeds & character. So take your own racist medicine
15  |  Jacob Boston, Thursday May 28, 2009
Christian student of the talmud. Look in the mirror my fiery friend. When non Jews used Jews to rape pillage and behead in the name of Rome, or the name of Jesus or the name of Allah, you better believe the Jews didnt ask for more and, instead, had a view of their oppressors as less than human. Is that too hard to understand for an anti semitic boyscout like yourself? Did you study the Talmud that also says "I call heaven and earth to testify that if any person, Jew or non Jew, man or woman, elder or child, is righteous than they inherit the world to come. Your Jew-hate paradigm's repugnant
16  |  Z- New York, Friday May 29, 2009
For all of you living of a dream of some God allowing you to steal, rape, kill and lie. Israel sounds like "Is Real Lie" The time of being superior has past, you will have to compromise, and accept less of the stolen land.
17  |  Z- New York, Friday May 29, 2009
For all of you living of a dream of some God allowing you to steal, rape, kill and lie. Israel sounds like "Is Real Lie" The time of being superior has past, you will have to compromise, and accept less of the stolen land.
18  |  Christian student of the Talmud, Friday May 29, 2009
Jacob Boston, At the Talmudic College in Jerusalem they teach that non-Jews are generally animals. They also teach that the lives of non-Jews have no sanctity. Many book have been written on this subject. I agree with you, that you can find all sorts of views in the Talmud. However, it is very clear that Jewish settlers and their supporters opt to adopt the most racist, most evil edicts. As to your claim that I hate Jews, it is nonsense. But I would not beg you to forgive me. And I wouldn't strive to prove to you that I am not a Jew hater, for you use this as a propaganda tool.
19  |   Karaite, Ramleh, Israel, Friday May 29, 2009
Jacob boston: you are not telling the truth. According to most Orthodox rabbinic authorities, the Talmud was not a reaction to christian anti-Semitism as you seem to suggest, it was rather a verbal Torah given to Moses by God. You also must know that Orthodox Judaism is based largely on this Talmud which actually distorts the TOrah. For example, in the Torah, people are commanded "thou shall not murder." But the Talmud says "thou shall not murder" means thou shall not murder a Jew....but you may murder a non-Jew because his life has no sanctity. hence the Gaza killings.
20  |  Amnon, Friday May 29, 2009
For those 78 percent of voted for the manure, the little chimp child and the shrew who couldn't even keep Billy from unzipping, you get what you deserve. You should all tell your children to marry out, (most of you have, I'm sure), and if you're Temple goers (which you are probably not) start attending church, because you have no ideal whatsoever it is to be a Jew and to believe in a Jewish state. As far as the Democrats are concerned, they should all be voted out - not just for being anti-Semites but for betraying America and the American people. You've revealed your true colors.
21  |  Amnon, Friday May 29, 2009
Berman and Waxman were two of the worst Congressmen ever to serve the Jewish community of West Los Angeles, yet unbelieveably the moronic fringe kept voting them back in - probably because they mumbled some nice Yiddishkeit thing and the old bubbehs swooned. Up until now, they kept their anti-Israel views silent, while always voting to downgrade our military. Now, with the Village Idiot and the Shrew calling the shots, they're revealing - along with Wexler and Ackerman - what kind of Judenrat and Kapos they really are. Tom and the haters would love them, the JINOmorons still vote them in.
22  |  andy-london, Friday May 29, 2009
#11 why are you pretending to be a christian?is it because your ashamed of who you really are?when did hitler give the jews a choice of leaving after "the final solution"on the jewish people was ordered by your grand mufti pals?Nobody hates palistinians, it's who they follow ie terrorist hamas and screaming clerics who call for Israel's destruction and america's and britain's and on and on it goes.All over the world people view people like suicide bombers and child killers [as hamas kills their minds with terrorist songs ]and so your youngsters kill instead of being children.
23  |  jonathan, Friday May 29, 2009
Obama plays strategy at a high level. He knows the key issue for the Arab side is people, meaning there is no peace deal without them giving up the so-called return right. I doubt the Arabs will agree - not only Hamas but the Arab states - which means eventual failure no matter what, but the effort is correct: pressure Israel and then certain settlements are included within Israel in a final deal. (Even J. Carter says this is the outline of the only deal possible.) They have to pressure Israel on settlements because the main point is elsewhere.
24  |  Roddy Frankel, Friday May 29, 2009
Mr. Rosner, you stated "The only two arguments Netanyahu can still make are..." It seems you overlook the most obvious argument: It is a double standard to demand a freeze on Jewish settlements, while making no restrictions on Arab settlements. According to the Jordanian-Israeli Peace Treaty (http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/peacetreaty.html) the West Bank is no longer Jordanian, and therefore, not occupied. The current Obama policy is worse than the British White Papers. It prohibits Jews from moving into the West Bank, and it encourages them to move out. This is an anti-semitic policy.
25  |  Lazarus, Friday May 29, 2009
I see the sense of hopelessness permeating from a oppressive Obama and Democratic Party. Where does Israel hope of survival lies today? Certainly not with the bloggers who seem content to associate Israel right to defend and preserve Israelis lives with the Palestinians death count. The reason that many Jews are saved from rocket and terrorists aattacks is the Jew incessant love of life and their willingness to protect and alert their citizens with the use of shelters and early warning sirens. You will not find much of that from the Palestinians who are forced into the line of fire.
26  |  Lazarus, Friday May 29, 2009
I see the sense of hopelessness permeating from a oppressive Obama and Democratic Party. Where does Israel hope of survival lies today? Certainly not with the bloggers who seem content to associate Israel right to defend and preserve Israelis lives with the Palestinians death count. The reason that many Jews are saved from rocket and terrorists aattacks is the Jew incessant love of life and their willingness to protect and alert their citizens with the use of shelters and early warning sirens. You will not find much of that from the Palestinians who are forced into the line of fire.
27  |  Lazarus, Friday May 29, 2009
No natural growth. Did I hear right? Well it took a Liberal Democratic Party to sanction the Death of Israel. Let see how God will deal with this America ! ! You fools strengthen the hands of your enemies. All of Israel is off limits to the new Romans. This is no Warsaw Ghetto.
28  |  Johnson USA, Friday May 29, 2009
The U.S. Jewish establishment was aware that Obama's friend and mentor for two decades was an America-hating, whitey-hating, Jew-hating racist activist, Rev. Wright, whose church he and his family attended. This same Rev. Wright together with former U.S. domestic terrorist Weatherman Bill Ayers, (another long-time close associate of Obama) have formed a Palestinian support group. Financial support for Israel may be criminalized during the Obama term. You haven't seen anything yet. The Jewish community is in thrall to the Obama leftist anti-Semitic ideology to its ultimate detriment.
29  |  Isaac Haskiya - Denmark/Israel, Friday May 29, 2009
*8 to True follower of the Torah. You shouldn´t say what you wrote. I know that Israel has some negative sides but I also know that every Jew has a spark in him even if it is the tiniest one. It is for Hashem to decide if he has abandoned Israel. We, on the other hand, must pray that it is not so! We must pray for Israel first and for ourselves afterwards. There is a "teshuah" and a "harachman" for everyone. Hope is part of faith. You must have both. Shabbat is approaching. It requires you to pray and give grace for Israel. Will you say no? Politics are worthless! Shabbat Shalom!
30  |  Stephen Arizona, Friday May 29, 2009
Brothers, the fact is God gave the promise and convenat to Abraham for the land , promised by God to his people. Isreal should not give one bit of land to anyone nor be pressured by hidden agendas that are designed for her desstruction. Lets face reality. Land for peace is a sham.I am a Christian who supports Isreal. My mothes family is Jewish. One thing I have learned is the terriost hamas ect... only want land to get closer to Isreals demise. The real goal for Isreals enenmies is her ultimate destruction. Obama may be a Islamic believer in disguise ,just wants to be elected again. .
31  |  Amnon, the Great AMERICAN Southwest, Friday May 29, 2009
Samson and Canadian, If the hobnail boot and SS uniforms fit, then you have to admit... exactly what you are - Jew haters and Fascist Pigs. And Obama, who wrings his hands when North Korea detonates nukes and threatens the world but demands Jews cannot live their own homes on their own lands is no better.
32  |  Boris, Jerusalem, Friday May 29, 2009
If Mr. Rosner's analysis is correct, then it's indeed time for confrontation with Amreeka of B. Hussein Obama and his Jewish appeasers. There's a consensus of big Jewish majority in Israel that we will not evacuate Gilo and Pisgat Zeev, Ariel and Maale Adumim. Let's state our territorial demands clearly for once, as PM Rabin did when he drew a line between "security settlements" and the "political" ones. If Amreeka of Obama wants us not just to act on our promises but to commit national suicide, then we should draw our red lines, batten the hatches and wait four years.
33  |  jillo, usa, Friday May 29, 2009
The "what side are you on"? comments suggest that only one "side" can win. So, let it be humanity and find a way to make/live in peace with our neighbors and family members. Those who refuse to go toward building peace condemn themselves and their children's children to endless cycles of war. It's not naive. It's a different way of looking at the future. Einstein was right.
34  |  \Mike Feldman, Kanada, Friday May 29, 2009
#7 Canadian (Ottowa) Your body count would be more credible if you knew how to spell the name of the city you claim to live in. Its"Ottawa", dufus. Should I believe that you can count but you can't spell? Wouild you be happier if your b.s. who killed who ratio was more favourable to the Palistinian side?
35  |  david, Friday May 29, 2009
it will be interesting to see how bibi handles all this considering how he got burned by arafat after oslo. clinton once said "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"
36  |  tangenjill, usa, Friday May 29, 2009
The "what side are you on"? comments suggest that only one "side" can win. So, let it be humanity and find a way to make/live in peace with our neighbors and family members. Those who refuse to go toward building peace condemn themselves and their children's children to endless cycles of war. It's not naive. It's a different way of looking at the future. Einstein was right.
37  |  RuralJew USA, Friday May 29, 2009
Question is would a Palestinean State accept Jews living in the territories as citizens like Israel has its Arab citizens? Like US has its Mexican and Canadian citizens?
38  |  Gershon - Occupied Oregon, Friday May 29, 2009
Natural growth is not the issue but the tip of the iceberg. The coalition will not allow Bibi to concede very much on settlements. I know that the Jordanians wont like this but, Israel just needs to hang on until Jordan becomes Palestinian controlled as it is destined to do with or without a Palestinian state in Occupied territories. Jordan was always part of Palestine until given as a booby prize to the Hashemite family of Saudi Arabia. Once that happens, no one can say that Palestinians have no home. They will then have a territory larger than Israel
39  |  Chaim - Israel, Friday May 29, 2009
The problem is that Bibi is letting our opponents set the rules. That is something you must never do. When your opponents set the rules, you can't possibly win. And make no mistake about it, Obama is likely the most hostile U.S. president Israel has ever faced and must be considered an opponent. His meeting with Bibi was obviously rigged so that ONLY those who supported Obama's policy, Democrat or Republican, would be present. The only answer is to resoundingly reject the Two State Final Solution. Than settlement freezes becomes a non issue. The Two State Final Solution is lethal for Israel.
40  |  Hofikoman, Friday May 29, 2009
What the blogosphere confirms is that antisemitism has freer reign when the US government decides it wants to pursue what it takes to be its self-interest which is in opposition to Jewish self-interest. For one thing antisemitism does is make Jews feel insecure. Clearly, Obama does NOT consider Jews a previously oppressed people despite the SHOAH. Because if he thought that or at least took antisemitic excess as a serious possibility he wouldn't put the Palestinians suffering before the suffering which can be inflicted by the Iranians. That Obama does so is a strategic, not moral, calculation.
41  |  Keith T. - UK, Friday May 29, 2009
It is very noticeable that many of the pro-Israel comments here rely on abuse of the other side rather than argument.
42  |  abou jihad, Friday May 29, 2009
the koran says that a certain generation of jews had been turned into apes and pigs, do you think that there children are amongst us today?? and would they most probably be the ones in israel or in general.
43  |  PZ, Friday May 29, 2009
Still dreaming, Rosner. "He will find a receptive audience"? "Playing chicken"? No one gives a damn if Bibi falls, pretends to fall or whatever. You have been absolutely wrong about absolutely everything for about three years now. Only when you finally have the balls to admit it will you ever have anything interesting to say again. Sorry to say it, but its the truth, my friend.
44  |  PZ, Friday May 29, 2009
Oh, and feel free to ask your idiot Israel Factor panel for their thoughts on the same. You'll come up with the same spectacularly incorrect result time and time again...
45  |  Vladimir, USA, Friday May 29, 2009
TO #1, 11 "End the sttlements" is a mendacious slogan used by a mendacious cabal of left wing anti-Semites and murderous racist islamo-facists who are hell-bent on ethnically cleansing the land of its Jewish inhabitants. Islamo-facists, anti-Semites and other human wastes adopt a hateful racist ideology toward Jews. They do not offer Jewish people any choice but to fight for its rightful inheritance, Land of Israel with its capital City of Jerusalem.
46  |  gb - Republic of USA, Saturday May 30, 2009
Mr. Rosner, You could make a feather pillow detonate, you are good... a bit warped, twisted, yet good and you make a good point, you can only get to the center, when you work your way in. I have more faith in Bibi, than Clinton, Pepsola and Crew.
47  |  Chris USA, Saturday May 30, 2009
To freeze "natural growth" of settlements is tantamount to national suicide and represents imposed birth control. Both are morally objective and constitute a threat to Israel's existence.
48  |  Hofikoman, Saturday May 30, 2009
What the blogosphere confirms is that antisemitism has freer reign when the US government decides it wants to pursue what it takes to be its self-interest which is in opposition to Jewish self-interest. For one thing antisemitism does is make Jews feel insecure. Clearly, Obama does NOT consider Jews a previously oppressed people despite the SHOAH. Because if he thought that or at least took antisemitic excess as a serious possibility he wouldn't put the Palestinians suffering before the suffering which can be inflicted by the Iranians. That Obama does so is a strategic, not moral, calculation.
49  |  Ronald USA, Saturday May 30, 2009
The Democrats named above, who support the Obama administration, are relatively far left wing in the US and do NOT represent the views of middle America. They can NOT marshall a broad base of support against Netanyahu if Netanyahu were to 'diplomatically' just say 'no' to Obama. Basically, Obama is bluffing; he has no bullets in his gun. Natural growth should continue - no matter what. To date, no one is factoring in the BACKLASH against Obama. Financially, a lot of US strength has disappeared forever. Please stand your ground, Israel. You will win.
50  |  Amnon, the Great AMERICAN Southwest, Saturday May 30, 2009
Big question for the Wexlers, Emanuels, Levins, John Frederick Kohn aka Kerry aka Traitor, Waxman, Berman and Ackerman is this. Whose side are you on? America's - which means fighting terrorism, saying no to 900 mil of our taxpayer dollars going to Hamas, no to bringing throatslitters up from Gitmo (yeah, put them in the prisons so they can indoctrinate others - better yet, put them in a WH bedroom next to Emanuel), being firm with Iran and North Korea. And having no problem with "natural growth" too. Or blind obedience to a party and to a Little Child? If its the latter, get out!
51  |  Jose, Paris, Saturday May 30, 2009
You know what this "talk-board" sounds like folks ? Like a playground in a reformatory for maladjusted children. Everyone yelling and making puerile racist insults on the level of the graffiti on a public toilet. The US has a vital interest in stopping all further settlement growth and at last, they are saying it clearly and unequivocally. It's high time, because Israeli politicians have been following a colonization policy since 1973 that aims to build an apartheid system, while proclaiming that they want peace. This policy is just as dangerous as Iran's quest for the bomb. Time for change.
52  |  Ronald USA, Saturday May 30, 2009
Samson, you must be a believer in the 'big lie' theory - the bigger the lie, the greater the believability. Please allow me to torture you with some facts. The “Mandate for Palestine” was not a naive vision briefly embraced by the international community. Fifty-one member countries—the entire League of Nations—unanimously declared on July 24, 1922: “Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.” Translation: Judea and Samaria is Jewish land - not Arab.
53  |  betz55, Saturday May 30, 2009
The 67 borders should be returned to, but any settlement can stay in the new Palestinian State, with the provision that the settlers are subject to any and all Palestinian law, up to and including dispossession. Arab towns and villages in Israel have existed for centuries and longer, while Jewish settlements in the WB have existed for decades, on land that they should have known better than to build on. Israel wants land not peace. Bibi was a mess the first time around and he will be mess the second time around along with his new FM, A Moldovan thug who wants to ethnically clean Israel.
54  |  Chaim - Israel, Saturday May 30, 2009
#53Betz. We will never return to the suicidal pre-1967 borders. The Great Israeli Land Giveaway, which never should have occurred, is over. Judea and Samaria have been ours for thousands of years and will remain ours forever. There are 22 Arab states for Judea/Samaria Arabs to choose from. However, we will NEVER allow the creation of a hostile, new state in the heart of our sole, tiny Homeland. We had an election on this issue and Israel resoundingly rejected the Two State Final Solution.
55  |  simon s., montross, va, Saturday May 30, 2009
the democrats will be giving away their majority in congress and second term presidential elections. some of the states voting were very close. evangelical and their followers may now have an issue for the coming elections on the position of obama and clinton and oher domacraats
56  |  Baconator, Mecca, Saturday May 30, 2009
#42 I saw your sister the other day. If I were you, I wouldnt talk.
57  |  Mario, Saturday May 30, 2009
all you leftist and terrorist supporters out there think that only Arabs have natural growth...arabs populate like rabbits! All of you are idiots liars with no common sense!!!
58  |  ina-scotland, Saturday May 30, 2009
#42 if your koran calls the jews monkey's and pigs what does that say about your koran.Our bible calls them [the jews] loved of the Lord,and that He would bless those that bless them and curse those that curse them,so be very careful,as GOD always means what he says.
59  |  Amnon, the Great AMERICAN Southwest, Sunday May 31, 2009
Jose, Too bad you don't like blunt talk that is the truth, But you're a fascist pig anyway who revealed his true colors with the "colonization" remark. Get this straight, buddy. That is the Jews own land - not yours, and certainly not the Palys. If they don't have a right to life there, you don't have a right to live - period. Oh, by the way, since you're in Paris, what did YOU DO to rescue Halimi, the boy who was tortured for weeks because he was a Jew? Go sieg heil with your Islamic murderous friends? As for Betz, you've posted before, and we know where you stand. How's Adolf?
60  |  Thomas B, Sunday May 31, 2009
All this natural growth stuff is not a good phrase or idea for Israel to present to the international community, it sounds too much like a cover for secretly continuing the colonizing of the West Bank. Far better to have a policy called 'Family Growth Construction' Which only allows new homes to be built specifically for the Children who were born in the West Bank and have now reached adulthood. If this were to be coupled with a ban on any Non West Bank born Jew from moving to the occupied territories, I think the international community might accept it.
61  |  Terry Traub, Sunday May 31, 2009
Israel should keep the land it has and maybe take some more. The Arabs ceded their territory through their many defeats in battle. Since when does the victorious nation cede land to the vanquished nation? A vanquished nation that keeps re-attacking? Israel belongs to the Jews--all of Israel, including Judea, Samaria, Gaza, etc. Israel should also take south Lebanon up to the Litani River. Enough of this bending over backward to please the United Nations and the Democratic Party of the USA!
62  |  Terry Traub, Sunday May 31, 2009
#51 Jose from Paris - go back to your bottle of wine. You think Israel's "colonization" policy is "as dangerous as Iran's quest for the bomb"? I would argue that Israel is the greatest stabilizing force in the Middle East, and a strong Israel means a safer world. If Israel disappeared tomorrow--no big loss to you French--it would mean a breakdown of Arab unity and a return to constant warfare. Plus, no more Israeli medical and scientific and technological advances that benefit you and the rest of us! Just more empty deserts and empty minds.
63  |  Light Walking, Sunday May 31, 2009
It seems that the Hebrew people have once again become enslaved, and conditions are being dictated by dominant goyim, even to to the point of dictating no natural growth - sound familiar? G-d listened to their cry, and brought them out of bondage, taught them to trust and in turn obey Him. There was a cost ... It cost them all they'd become accustomed to,and all they had, to obtain Eretz Yisrael. The Hebrew people have survived the rise and fall of 6 empires, because they are His chosen people, who are called to be a nation of priests to the nations. ... He will accomplish His covenant
64  |  David, Sunday May 31, 2009
Bibi's timing is totaly off!. First time he got elected he met a freindly president who just couldn't stand the site of him nor cared much for his foileh shtick type politics. Now he is meeting a serious determine strong president who means what he says and says what he means; namely its time to end this Israeli/Arab conflict because unlike his predecessor he knows it is a natioan and decurity interest of the USA. Bibi should have been elected 8 years ago, he would have a fantastic time with George...but timing Bibi timing....when will you learn??
65  |  JIM IN CANADA, Sunday May 31, 2009
to all people of all kind -give ! and you will get !
66  |  Proud Retired Marine Officer and Proud Jew!, Sunday May 31, 2009
It may sound strange, but perhaps Bibi needs to stop communicating with the Obama administration to include Mitchell. The US has assets in Israel. If the US becomes openly hostile with Israel, Obama may understand what it is like to be discounted by a country that does not need US loans for survival. I am tired of the rhetoric "unshakable" as that would become a myth under Obama's current tact. He is a slick Chicago politician, an empty suit, who reads well. I mistook him based on his seeming intellect & ability to think quickly on his feet. McCain would have been a shoe-in if not for Palin!
67  |  Bro. James, Sunday May 31, 2009
Is Russian and N. Korean aggressions against U.S. God's reply to U.S. aggression against Israel?
68  |  Mike Feldman, (Anglais), Canada, Sunday May 31, 2009
To #51-You are against the "natural colonization" occuring on the settlements. However, from what I read, the Frenchies are none too pleased about the "natural colonization" of France by the Muslims. After all they are not pure laine. How puerile of the French. Wasn't it your guy, DeVillipan who called Israel a "shiity little country"?
69  |  Jonah in Jamaica, Wednesday Jun 03, 2009
Roddy Frankel #24 has it exactly right. The West Bank is disputed territory -not 'occupied'. Let Obama and the hostile bloggers on ths site explain why it is okay for Israel to host 1.25 million Arabs within its borders , and allow them to have the right to elect members to the Kenesset but not for any Jews to live in the West Bank area. Obama will be gone in either 4 or 8 years, but Israel will remain if Netanyahu does not yield on security issues.
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The Israel Factor, Sep. 2009: Obama is rapidly losing favor with panel of Israeli experts

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Arthur, Miami-Florida: Go Rudy!! It sounds like American Jews are finally waking up to the disaster that is Obama and his ultra-left wing cohorts. What kind of an American president appoints a self-proclaimed communist to his government? How about the Mao lovers? He promised to keep Jerusalem united (for 24 hrs.) Runs around the world hugging dictators (Hugo Chavez) bowing before Muslim Kings (Saudi) and Japanese Emperors all while apologizing for American greatness. Then he turns around and brings KSM to NYC for a trial that will focus on the evils of the Bush Administration. What kind of nonesense is this?
Joe the Plumber - Canton, Ohio: Joseph Baltimore: Please note - one has the freedom to go to a private religious institution and pray all day to one's heart content instead of studying Reading ,Writing and Arithmetic along with evolution. We are paying public taxes to educate, not indoctrinate. Besides, everyone has the right to pray in a public school, and to my understanding , praying is between the individual and G-d, and in that manner, he or she may do so - quietly , after the pledge . We need not turn public schools into religious tent rallies inundated by morons that "speak in tongues". Period! Grow up!
the EQUALISER: #80, superchickenwoman lydia you say ".......turfed out more than I've had hiccups" Please clearify, do you mean those hiccups each time you lay an egg, or each time you lift your skirt??
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