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Friday Jul 10, 2009
Rosner's Domain: The forgotten possibility: good, old failure to performPosted by SHMUEL ROSNER
Comments: 41      Follow Rosner's Domain on Twitter!!! The Weekly Standard's blog commented on my previous post - Does Obama understand Israeli politics? - saying that: That Rosner could have come to the conclusion that this binary choice offers the only plausible explanation for Obama's behavior does not bode well for anyone, least of all the pro-Palestinian left that's so desperate to see Obama successfully push the Israelis toward making tough concessions. But what if I rushed into listing only these two options ("The Obama administration doesn't understand Israeli politics; The Obama administration doesn't care about Israeli politics and Israeli public opinion") as possible explanation to the settlement-freeze crisis - and neglected to mention a third one? A good friend - much smarter than myself - sent me this comment: Since when does a journalist write about government and not consider just good, old failure to perform, poor execution, incompetence. It happens every day that governments understand and care about important problems and then simply don't do a good enough job of addressing them. Your binary choice does not cover all, or even the most likely, possibilities.I surrender with no battle. This guy's right - but only as long as you're ready to believe that such incompetence exists even within the competence-is-our-middle-name Obama administration. Dear friend - are you a closet McCain voter? Follow Rosner's Domain on Twitter!!!
1 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Friday Jul 10, 2009
Since Obama has come into office, he has make it his habit to make a big announcement almost every day.Far as I know none have been successfully implemented but they sounded good at the time. I think the settlement freeze is the same story. Obama told his aids "I gotta make a big announcement, when I'm in the Middle East". An aid said "How about we tell the Israelis they must stop expansion of the settlements" Another aid explained to Obama what that meant. For lack of anything substantive the Big O. went with the settlement announcement. Like most other announcements, they mean nothing.
2 | andy-london, Friday Jul 10, 2009
B.o.couldn't care less how Israeli politics work.All this palaver to see whose comments are the most intelligent sounding makes no difference to what's happening in Israel.LEts tell it as it is.B.O.wants the Israelis out of jerusalem, out of the west bank,and to give up the Golan.End Of Story.in fact he'd be glad if there was NO Israel .If Israel had oil their would be no "poor pallis"in fact they'd be no gaza as they'd need to go back to jordan and the bedouin lifestyle they originate from.Israel will survive all this but B.O.wont as america's is pro israel REGARDLESS .continued
3 | andy-london, Friday Jul 10, 2009
You'll start getting the pretend americans comments coming in fast and furious,or the african american supporters, and aclu american haters,, and nation of islam fifth columists,ALL of them are haters of israel.These people are crazy with jealousy against israel as ALL of them have inbuilt in them [ not diplomacy or disiplined minds like DECENT people ] but a 6th century mindset.where lies and killing are the order of the day .Every single Western nation is infiltrated with them It's about time our leaders showed some backbone and stood up that p.c.disease.
4 | GOLDEN NUGGET Australia, Saturday Jul 11, 2009
HUSSIEN O understands Israeli politics WELL ENOUGH to continue to pull the wool over Israel's eyes and play the cat and mouse game with Israel.....Now.... Israel KNOWS this full well but the REAL question is how long will Israel ALLOW this manipulative devious poser who boasts his MUSLIM
HERITAGE and whose heart is with ISLAM to wipe his feet over Israel as a door mat...ENOUGH is ENOUGH Israel..its about time you demonstrated you had BALLS.... "BALLS OF FIRE" !!
5 | GOLDEN NUGGET Australia, Saturday Jul 11, 2009
HUSSIEN O understands Israeli politics WELL ENOUGH to continue to pull the wool over Israel's eyes and play the cat and mouse game with Israel.....Now.... Israel KNOWS this full well but the REAL question is how long will Israel ALLOW this manipulative devious poser who boasts his MUSLIM
HERITAGE and whose heart is with ISLAM to wipe his feet over Israel as a door mat...ENOUGH is ENOUGH Israel..its about time you demonstrated you had BALLS.... "BALLS OF FIRE" !!
6 | Tom, US, Saturday Jul 11, 2009
As usual Feldman went off his psychotrophic meds. Obama this and Obama that.
7 | GOLDEN NUGGET Australia, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
#6 TOM is having a problem finishing his sentence..dont blame him..its predictable given his usual dismal IQ as he repeatedly pollutes JPost. Add to that his mentally retarded psyche and BINGO !
However lets be charitable and finish his sentence for him. .."Obama this" means.. THIS Obama is
an accomplished ass licker of the muslim world who boasts his muslim "Heritage" and leans to
Islam against Jadaism and Israel and by stealth engineers the demise of Israel..."Obama that" means
...THAT Obama aka HussienO is the vacillating ineffective president who has disgraced himself and
America !!
8 | GOLDEN NUGGET Australia, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
#6 TOM is having a problem finishing his sentence..dont blame him..its predictable given his usual dismal IQ as he repeatedly pollutes JPost. Add to that his mentally retarded psyche and BINGO !
However lets be charitable and finish his sentence for him. .."Obama this" means.. THIS Obama is
an accomplished ass licker of the muslim world who boasts his muslim "Heritage" and leans to
Islam against Jadaism and Israel and by stealth engineers the demise of Israel..."Obama that" means
...THAT Obama aka HussienO is the vacillating ineffective president who has disgraced himself and
America !!
9 | Terry - Eilat, Israel, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
Don't forget about the ''ALL OF THE ABOVE'' option. Obama doesn't understand Israeli politics, Obama doesn't care about Israeli politics, & the best, Obama is an incompetent.
Obama is a fraud & a left-wing ideologue. America has elected an anti-American president, actually, an anti-Western civilization president. But the question of competence really stands out, not just on Israel but very importantly, on economics, specifically the American economy. Obama is failing, his policies are failing - and it is becoming impossible to cover-up.
10 | Suzan, Tulsa, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
Obama will not support racism and apartheid, even if dressed in Jewish garment.
If Judaism chooses to be racist and criminal, then it should be associated with Nazism.
Israel that believes in ethnic cleansing and racism and shulhan aruch and hatanya is an enemy of America and every thing that defines the American culture.
America is the Unitedf states of America, not the United States of Talmudistan.
11 | Terry - Eilat, Israel, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
All the polls show that Americans are basically conservative. Recent polls show Obama's popularity falling & job approval ratings falling even faster. What is rising is unemployment. Now the question is what economic event will knock down the house of cards upon which his popularity rests. Will it be a collapse in the dollar? Will it be higher unemployment? Another down-turn in the housing market?
Or will it be a general malaise as Americans begin to feel a drop in their purchasing power which will be the tipping point?
12 | Alfred, Austin, Texas, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
We must not allow international Jewish bankers and rober barons to control and enslave our country.
Now, it is very clear the Zionists, who give loyalty to Israel, want to destroy America financially.
Madoff is just one example.
Hence, we americans must choose between loylathy to America or submission to Israel.
13 | Terry - Eilat, Israel, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
You can only be a fraud & an incompetent for a short while. Eventually, reality sets in, bad news filters out, excuses come to be seen as just excuses, lies exposed, cover-ups uncovered.
This is what is happening to Obama despite efforts by a fawning mainstream media of sycophants & ass-kissers. The rhetoric will ring hollow, latter it will be greeted with laughter & derision. Mark my words, in a year, people will wince when they hear the name Obama. ''Buyers remorse'' is just beginning, it will soon be an avalanche.
14 | Terry - Eilat, Israel, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
Today, we have two very interesting headlines. One, Netanyahu wants to meet with Abbas. The other, Abbas refuses to waive the phoney ''right of return'' - obviously, a non-starter. He also insists on a territorial link between Gaza & the West Bank, another non-starter. Abbas has written to Obama insisting on not only a settlement freeze but on a Palestinian state on ALL territory beyond the 1967 armistice line + Jerusalem. Why Netanyahu wants to meet Abbas is a complicated discussion in it's own right.
15 | Terry - Eilat, Israel, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
While I am certainly not a supporter of any kind of two-state solution, isn't it obvious to any sane person that we are wasting our time talking to Abbas? It's time to throw Abbas & his Fatah crooks out of the country. There is nothing sacred about the PA, the PLO, or Fatah, except to leftists. They are as much a problem as Hamas but with less support among their own people. The Oslo fiasco was such an unmitigated failure because morons thought you could transform, by magical wishful thinking, thugs, thieves, & terrorists into ''peace partners'' under that liar & crook Arafat.
16 | Terry - Eilat, Israel, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
Only the completely brain-dead really believe that anymore. And, quite obviously, except for the brain-dead, anyone can see that nothing has changed, except perhaps for the worse. It's time to jettison everything associated with Oslo. It's time to throw Fatah out of the territories. I would dump them in Gaza and leave them to the tender mercies of Hamas. That's just because I'm not a nice guy. More charitable people might just dump them in Jordan or somewhere in Eurabia. But, regardless, they should be thrown out & this charade ended.
17 | Terry - Eilat, Israel, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
I think that Alfred (#12) &Susan (#10) are the same person. Clearly, this is either an example of hermaphaditism or a confused sexual identity that accompanies their other rather obvious mental disorder. So, to Alfred/Susan - this is a place for serious discussion not a group therapy session for mentally ill anti-Semites. Instead of cluttering up this forum, vent your psychotic rage by banging your head on the asylum wall until the attendants come & give you your daily injection. Try electric shock treatments since your lobotomy obviously has not worked. And have a nice day ......
18 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
#6 Tom. Why do you have the need to make a fool of yourself, every time you see my name? Since this post included the question "Does Obama understand Israeli politics?": I think its reasonable to assume that anyone with a modicum of intelligence might respond by discussing Obama. I know you like to either declare that the Jews are the progeny of Satan, or that I am psycotic regadless of the topic, but why not try some variety? If a comedian keeps tellling the same jokes, people generally liook for a new comedian. You still have not answered my question, "Do you believe Jews are descendants of satan?
19 | Avi Yerushalmy, Jerusalem, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
Terry Eilat the Kahanist, Jews like you should be placed under the Nazi category, not the Jewish category.
The moment you start branding anyone disagreeying with you as sexually purturbed, or lefty, or "misguided", it means you have chosen the Nazi path.
As far as I am concerned, Nazis are criminals and ought to be obliterated.
When Jews behave like Nazis, they become Nazis.
There is no such a thing as Kosher Nazism.
20 | Bill, Dallas, Texas, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
Mike Feldman, you can play the verbal juggling game as long as you want. but one thing is clear, America shall not shed more of its blood for Jewish fascism and expansion.
If Jews want to occupy IRan and Egypt and Saudi Arabia and Turkey, let them do it.
But we Americans will not allow the blood of our children to be spilled for the sake of Jewish empire-building. Read my lips.
21 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
#12. Alfred, Austin "Madoff is just one example" You give one example, because one example is all you can give. Good for you, you must have a T.V. down there in Aujstin. And let's look at Madoff. Madoff socialized largely in Jewish circles, and most of the clients he bankrupted or nearly bankrupted were Jewish. Therefore as part of the great American Jewish conspiracy, Madoff decided to steal from the Jews to control the Gentiles. Brilliant. Madoff employed the Ponzi scheme. Do you know who created the Ponzi scheme? Ponzi. A nice Catholic boy. Must be part of the Papal conspiracy.
22 | Schmit Speilzerg, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
Terry, even Israel proper is disputed territory.
The Palestinians have a right to demand Tel Aviv just as Israel is demanding Hebron and Nablus.
remember, the green line is a military armistice line, not a border.
23 | Hofikoman, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
Lets put the disputed territory into proper context Schmit #22. 1800 years after Jews lost their sovereignty in a land that even the Quran understands as God having promised it to Jews, some Jews decided the time to reclaim that sovereignty had arrived. Opposition to this from many quarters did not stop the re-establishment of a "modern civilizational state" for Jewry. Quite the contrary, it is the opposition to this state which assures its continuity. But those who presumed to lead the Arabs were only interested in a solution which left Jews in permanent minority status. Nothing has changed.
24 | American, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
Obama just called the Israel bluff. Good for him. You either move toward a two state solution or you don't. He sent someone over to play the patty cake game and my guess it will be some outpost taken down here, a few roadblocks less there, a continuation of more Palestanians killed in a week than Israels in a year. He sent the right man over for the job, and yet know one is expecting any results. Palestanian support is still in single digits. It is all about Iran. We have a delicate situation and with this Netanyahu-Lieberman government we can't trust Israel with what is best for the U.S.
25 | American, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
Obama just called the Israel bluff. Good for him. You either move toward a two state solution or you don't. He sent someone over to play the patty cake game and my guess it will be some outpost taken down here, a few roadblocks less there, a continuation of more Palestanians killed in a week than Israels in a year. He sent the right man over for the job, and yet know one is expecting any results. Palestanian support is still in single digits. It is all about Iran. We have a delicate situation and with this Netanyahu-Lieberman government we can't trust Israel with what is best for the U.S.
26 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
#22. Schmit. Every country in the world can probably be called "disputed" territory. I can't think of one country that wasn't once someone else's country. However, only in the case of Israel can no nothings include statements like "even Israel proper is disputed territory" and think they've just said something that has any meaning.You can claim Moscow if you want. This military armistice line is also interesting. Before 1967 there were no occupied territories yet Israel was under constant attack. Sometimes when you wage war and lose there are consequnces like being worse off than before.
27 | Hofikoman, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
The failure of the Obama administration to perform will be its undoing. Right now it is trying to take over the Republican's suggested use of the stimulus money to give breaks to small business, but it is too late for that. Stagflation was inevitable, but exacerbating stagflation by taxing entrepreneurs and energy consumption will only increase the misery index. How much support Obama will have from the American people for his foreign policy is completely dependent on the success of his domestic economic agenda. Carter's Camp David didn't help him one iota when he lost his re-election bid.
28 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
American. We have a really delicate situation with the Hamas and Fatah governments. Who can we trust?
29 | Bert, USA, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
Those Americans who are endlessy obsessed to support ethnic cleansing of Jews living on Jewish land from the time of King David should first end their own occupation of stolen land. ALL of America, except for the tiny Indian reservations, is STOLEN. Indians have been genocided right here in the good old USA. Solemn treaties with the indians have remained unfulfilled. Unemployment levels and life spans of the American Indians on reservation are far worse than the poorest of the so-called Palestinians in Gaza. That is the "inconvient truth". Deal with it!
30 | Terry - Eilat, Israel, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
Now it appears that slimeball scumbag Solana, the EU minister of surrender & appeasement, wants the UN to impose a ''final solution'' on us, to impose a Palestinian state. Two points come to mind. The first is that this is what happens when you do the wrong thing - in 1948, we should have expelled ALL Arabs & in 1967, we should have expelled all Arabs from the territories, Jerusalem, & blown up that damn mosque. Second, this is a great precedent for the UN. Let's apply it to the Basques, to Sri Lanka, to Western Turkestan, to Tibet, to Darfur, to S. Sudan, To Chechniya, to Dagestan, etc.
31 | Terry - Eilat, Israel, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
We can apply Solana's suggestion to Catalonia as well. And then we will do the same & have the UN impose an independant Kurdestan, something that will thrill Turkey, Iran, Iraq, & Syria. And why stop there? Why not a Hispanic state in the US Southwest, including S. California & Texas. Then there is a need to impose an independant Berber state in Morocco & Algeria. Of course, no one would think of doing this to anyone except Israel. This is a direct consequence of Oslo & our own moron politicians like Peres & Beilin.
32 | Hofikoman, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
Terry from Eilat forgets to mention Menachem Begin at Camp David. The entire Israeli establishment is responsible for the bed we have to lie in, not only Peres and Beilin. And there really is no use to cry over spilled milk. Only exceptional leadership could stop what will overwhelmingly be an "imposition" of a settlement upon us at this time, and Israel simply doesn't have that leadership either in power, or on the horizon. It is an open question whether it will be tactically better for Israel to parry or to actively oppose the imposition. Yes, the imposition is disgusting, I don't envy Bibi.
33 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
The U.N. can't even enforce its resolution to not allow the re-arming of Hizbollah in Southern Lebanon. Now it wants to set borders and "solve" the refugee problem. Good luck Solana. Of course the U.N. can recognize Palestine if it wants. What's another vote against Israel on any motion?
Kind of redundant.
34 | Hofikoman, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
So Terry from Eilat should take considerable solace in the impending failure of Obama's domestic agenda. That is why parrying the world's thrust is so much better a choice than actively counter thrusting. Given the American political calendar and the currently envisioned timetable for benchmarks in Mid-East negotiation I would hope Bibi's coaltion will support Bibi's impositition of a temporary settlement freeze. We really don't have to hand more rope than necessary to the ranks of reductionizing anti-Zionists especially in a USA which is at risk for an intensifying cultural war.
35 | Terry - Eilat, Israel, Sunday Jul 12, 2009
#34 Hofikoman - I take no pleasure whatsoever in watching Obama make a mess of America. Have you ever read the Constitution or the Declaration of Independance? Overwhelming is the only word that describes these documents. You don't have to be American to admire the concepts therein expressed. I agree that our leadership is deficient, our political elite inept & self-serving. But, there is nothing inevitable about any imposed settlement. My answer to Solana is you & what army will impose a settlement against our will? We are not the Jews of pre-war Europe.
36 | Esav Benyamin, Monday Jul 13, 2009
Non-citizen Arabs in Judea and Samaria belong in Palestine, and should be given a reasonable time to move there: to Jordan. End of problem. But what about Obama? Of course he's incompetent, he starts from unconstitutional principles of ward boss politics, socialist economics, and international appeasement. Unfortunately, the Israeli establishment has been dancing around that appeasement so long, the world thinks we really believe in it too. We can't blame him without blaming ourselves. Stand up and push back, it works.
37 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Monday Jul 13, 2009
I agree with Hafikoma to the extent that if a temporary freeze on the settlements is a pallatable negotiating tool, it should be implemented to see what Israel gets in return. Like all negotiaions, something given by one party in good faith, should be returned in kind by the other party. Expansion of the settlements does not appear to be a deal breaker for Israel, so why not throw out the bail and see if the other side bites. If they don't it isolates the attempts at imposed solutions by outside parties to the negotiations.
38 | Terry - Eilat, Israel, Monday Jul 13, 2009
#37 Mike - First off, we will get absolutely nothing in return for a settlement freeze except more demands for further concessions. Second, define more precisely a ''settlement'' - is Jerusalem a settlement? How about the large settlement blocs we intend to keep? By agreeing to a total settlement freeze, we are in effect saying we have no claim beyond the 1967 Armistice Line, including Jerusalem. We are being asked to conceed our claims before negotiations (not that I would give a millimetre for any Palestinian state). It's not a minor issue.
39 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Monday Jul 13, 2009
Hofikoman. Sorry, I now agree with Terry. Nothing's for nothing. Where's the offer from the other guys. The Pals should have offered something when they had me.
40 | Hofikoman, Monday Jul 13, 2009
It is a major issue Terry. I don't agree with you that we will get nothing in return for a settlement freeze except demands for further concessions. When America and Israel negotiate there is a give and take, and they are negotiating the issue. The context of Obama's pressure in my view is to create a dynamic for universal nuclear disarmament (a passion of his college radical days). Within that goal he presents also as hugely opportunistic and Machiavellian and therefore a pragmatic and self-interested Prince. As far as I can tell Israel is not agreeing to a TOTAL settlement freeze. Hope not!
41 | Hofikoman, Monday Jul 13, 2009
The strategic context to this negotiation is nuclear proliferation in Iran and elsewhere. The report that Saudis will allow I.A.F. overflight to take out Iranian nuclear potential is believable. The Americans too may be interested in the Abbas state-in-the-making for basing U.S. military forces as they leave Iraq. I really respect Terry's passion for Tzion, but the way I see it developing, it is the Palestinians, far more than the Israelis who are going to be hemmed in by external powers. In Islamic society, soveriegns do have a lot of perogative and Sunni solidarity, however failed, persists
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