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Monday Nov 23, 2009
Rosner's Domain: Recycled: Why does Israel keep agreeing to prisoner exchanges?Posted by SHMUEL ROSNER
Comments: 124      If you're interested in the upcoming Gilead Schalit deal, and want to know why Israel tends to buy into such deals, here's an article I wrote for Slate back in 2008: "For better or for worse, this is mostly a product of the Israeli psyche". Read it here.
1 | Adina Kutnicki, Monday Nov 23, 2009
Israel's leaders have NO idea how to exact Jewish justice. They have NO idea how to thwart their besieged mentalities, whereby the notion of giving in to blackmail ENCOURAGES more Jewish deaths. They hide behind personal drama stories staged by a pliant media, all the while discounting true rescue missions. How can it be MORE dangerous to state - that the State of Israel will execute one terrorist a day in prison, until Schalit is released? Are they protecting a nation by releasing ! captured terrorists, only to kill again? Mentally ill leaders have NO mandate to govern.None.
2 | Chris USA, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
Adina Kutnicki you are too extreme, making a mockery out of justice in the process! Israel's leadership is caught between a rock and a hard place because the 1st prisoner swap created this precedent which is now a mill stone around the neck of the government. A way must be acheived to end this practice without undermining public support for the government. Logically that means the public votes to determine the course of action on Gilad Schalit. Anything less calls into question the democratic nature of Israel. The vote should also include a measure to prevent future occurances.
3 | Abdul Bakir, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
Israel is weak for war and for peace. We have won from Israel because we can kidnaps all Israeli not to
matter solder or civil people. Israel must go to America and give arab land that is Israel. Our Alla say to
us Jews are infidel like all infidel and it is Jihad to kidnap to maKe victry for Islam. Muslim will win we have
many big rocket and I am solder of Islam. Not frigten from Jew Jew frigten from Arab.
4 | conenorm ,USA, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
Adina Kutnicki is absolutely right. We don't have to feed for years murderers and in the end let
them go in exchange for one kidnapped soldier or for bodyparts of fallen soldiers. Terrorists
with blood on their hand have to stand immediate trial before a military court and be find guilty
of murder, assault with a deadly weapon or whatever the charge is and executed. There should
be just "light cases" in the prisons, usable for exchange, not terrorist murderers. Gilad Shalit
was a soldier and he knew, that soldiers live dangerously.
5 | thor, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
it would be okay to snatch an innocent palistinian and swap him. but releasing dangerous criminals is insane,and leads to more kidnapping and murder of jews.
i would mark out an area of gaza and demand that if this soldier is not returned in 24 hours,that area will be incinerated.
then i would mark out the next area.....................
6 | Alan Abbey, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
Our Jewish moral values show how we value life over death and must redeem our captives - Rabbi Dr. Donniel Hartman, Shalom Hartman Institute
http://www.hartman.org.il/Opinion_C_View_Eng.asp?Article_Id=155
7 | conenorm ,USA, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
@ Abdul Bakir : "Israel is weak for war and for Peace" ? So how come that the Arabs lost every
war they fought with in Israel in 1948,1956,1967,1978 etc. and incl. the last war in Gaza? You
can kidnap, but you also can also get killed trying to do so..What Allah allegedly says to you is of little interest. Go back to the Arabian desert, to your camels ,or hurry to to your virgins in heaven. If you have difficulties with transportation, just ask any Israeli, he may help you to get there. And shut up in the meantime.
8 | Mark Jeffery Koch Cherry Hill, NJ USA, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
I, like many people am against trading terrorists with blood on their hands but does Gilad Shalit deserve to stay in Gaza forever? It is very easy to criticize Israels leaders but put yourself in the shoes of Gilads parents and ask yourself if you would refuse to get your son back if the only way was handing back terrorists? Adina Kutnicki, your above response would mean the end of the State of Israel. Your far right wing extremist positions echo those of Zimbabwe, the Serbs in Kosovo, Idi Amin, Hitler, & Stalin. It's right wing nuts with views like yours that are making Israel a pariah.
9 | Tzvi/amerikkka, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
because zionism is a mental disorder
10 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
MJK. You sound like John Kerry. "I was against trading terrorists with blood on their hands, before I was for it." Mark there is no doubt that this is a tremenously difficult decision. If Hamas kills Shalit they're looking for big trouble, but that would be no consolation to Shalit and his loved ones. However, Adina Kutnicki's opinion are no more right wing than your opinions are left wing. That's what this site is about. Diffferent views on the same situation. What gets me about your blogs is that you often seems concerned about the perseption of Israel's actions outside Israel..They may, in their self-enlightened wisdom, embarrass your sensitivities from time to time.
11 | David W. Lincoln Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
The human shields know who the trouble makers are. So do the Israelis. The status quo simply isn't good enough, for we have seen this time and time and time again. Therefore, the human shields have to
be accountable for their actions. When they see trouble makers in the neighbourhood, they should flee so as not to be collateral damage. Otherwise, they deserve to share the fate of the troublemakers with
blood on their hands.
12 | andy-london, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
#It's a true saying "you cant reason with unreasonable people" and these 6th century mindset islamists are certainly not normal.#8it's your left wing cowards who brought all the chaos to the west and olmert's weak kneed response when this lad was abducted.Hamas has now offered millions for the kidnapping of more israeli lads because they want more power over Israel.Do you give in without a fight.Remember the nazis ?Look at the response from #3 does that not tell you something?
13 | Mark Jeffery Koch Cherry Hill, NJ USA, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
to #10 Mike Feldman. My views are not left wing. I was against Israel returning Sami Kuntar, the sadist who murdered a family & crushed a rock against a baby's skull for the three dead soldiers & live drug dealer in the deal Israel negotiated with Hezbollah, so please be careful about branding me left wing. I AM for a two State solution for demographic reasons only. I am vehemently against returning the Golan to Syria and feel it is a mistake of catastrophic proportions. When Kutnicki advocates killing a terrorist every day until Shalit is released that is not the Israel of Ben Gurion.
14 | TSB, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
MJK: The point is that we are NOT Schalit's parents. We have to live with the consequences of any deal. And the consequences are that our enemies know that it is worth capturing Jews -- the Jews will pay a high price to get their own back.
Our sages warned about this 2000 years ago. It it true that it is a mitzvah to redeem captives. But the halakha is clear: one may not pay too much precisely for the reason so as not to encourage future kidnappings.
And what will you say to the parents of the NEXT young man who is kidnapped? And the NEXT?
15 | Mark Jeffery Koch Cherry Hill, NJ USA, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
#10Mike Feldman How Israel is perceived in Europe, a continent of pacifists, does not concern me. However, how Israel is perceived in America does. A growing number of Americans perceive Israel as the aggressor. With an intermarriage rate of 60% less and less American Jews are supportive of Israel and a growing number of evangelicals are having concerns about the occupation. Unlike Europe, America is responsible for Israel's arms, planes, tanks, & very important veto in the U.N. and I am concerned that Israel seems more beholden then ever before to right wing extremists and religious groups.
16 | Mark Jeffery Koch Cherry Hill, NJ USA, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
To Mike Feldman..The person you defended above, poster #1 is a supporter of the late Rabbi Kahane, a man the Israeli government thought was too radical. In the above posters blog http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/5798 she stated "Kahane's murder (that of an often-maligned rabbi, deemed a "radical" and a "racist")" Any person that defends Kahane Mike, is NOT the average Israeli. You would be hard pressed to find someone in the Knesset who defends that madman. All the problems in the territories are from American Olim, NOT from Sabras or from other immigrants. Strange eh?
17 | Cry, USA, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
What has happened to Israel is what I can the Anne Frank Syndrome. The lesson from Anne Frank's tragic life is that even innocents are not safe when murderous enemies want them destroyed. But what is taken away today is her unfortunate entry before she knew the end awaiting her, that "Despite everything, I believe that people are really good at heart.". Israel has given up "Never Again" for a belief that prostrating before the enemy with gestures of good will and compromise will bring out the good heart in the enemy. If this attitude continues Israel will end up like Anne Frank.
18 | Cry, USA, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
To #16. I thought Kahane was too radical too. Strike that, I thought Kahane was unrealistic in his views. Unfortunately history is proving that maybe Kahane's "radicalism" is what is needed to save Israel from its slow suicide. It is Leftist like you who have done more damage to Israel then all her enemies combined. It was Jewish Leftists like you who Kahane was correct to warn about and detest.
19 | Mark Jeffery Koch Cherry Hill, NJ USA, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
To #10 TSB. No, we are not Shalit's parents but we are Jews. I have two nephews who served in the IDF, one in combat, and if God forbid one was kidnapped I would want the Israeli government to do everything possible to return him to his family. This is not an easy decision and the price may be too much for Israel to bear & I DO understand that. I do not feel the current government would make a deal for Shalit's release that would greatly damage Israel's security. There's a Facebook page called "Free Galid Shalit" with over 100,000 members. I am one and it should have every Jew as a member.
20 | nuchem, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
Isn't it the message of Israel saying we recognize Hamas' fight and the proof is we will deal with them exclusively i.e. 1000 in exchange for 1.
Isn't the message of Israel saying we are aware of setting precedent for future kidnappings and more 1000's for 1 exchanges.
Isn't the message of Israel saying wer are aware that we the authorities are deliberately enabling convicted civilian (mass) murderers of Israelis to escape back into the populace.
I can continue with more messages of Israel but let this suffice as I haven't got many remaining characters left for me to print here.
21 | Mark Jeffery Koch Cherry Hill, NJ USA, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
To #18 "leftists like you" Hmmmm. I guess that includes the current Israeli government, and the overwhelming majority of Israelis. Kahane was a racist madman and typical of American Jews who have emigrated to Israel and caused more deaths than any so called leftists like me. Your hero Baruch Goldstein went into a mosque and murdered thirty people at prayer, and the people torching Palestinian cars and olive groves are all Americans. Why is it that in a country like Israel that has immigrants from over 100 countries the American Olim are setting the region ablaze?
22 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
MJK. No one can doubt that your motives are sincere. My point in #10 was to say that if you don't want yourself to be labelled, it is best not to label others. Therefore, you shouldn't assume that I was defending #1, only #1's right to express themself. That, as you know, is the American way. In #19 you have stated that every Jew should be on the Facebook page called "Free Galid Shalit". Even though your sentiments are compassionate, there are many who have, and are entitled to a different opinion on what to do. Personally, I haven't formulated exactly what I think is best , so I take comfort in being able to read differing opinions.
23 | Mark Jeffery Koch Cherry Hill, NJ USA, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
#22 Mike Feldman. Mike, I thank you and I agree with you. I am tired of being labeled a self hating Jew by dozens of posters on jpost.com because I support a two State solution. I do this for demographic reasons only. Last December & January the NYTIMES had more than 1,000 letters posted about Operation Cast Lead. About 90% called Israel nazi's & brutal aggressors and on nytimes.com I defended Operation Cast Lead 100%. The article on the prisoner swap in todays Nytimes.com is full of anti Israel posters. It's these people we have to worry about, not people from Labor, Kadima or Meretz or me.
24 | Cry, USA, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
To #21. "Your hero Baruch Goldstein". My hero? What more proof does anyone here need of the Leftist thought process. Always defame first. Where did I even imply that Goldstein was my hero? It's a real shame that you lump all Right thinking Jews into your own little precieved category of racists and murderers but allow compassion and excuse and are open to compromise with those enemies who would kill at will and destroy us all if given half a chance. The curse of Israel, both Nation and people, are the Leftists among us.
25 | Mark Jeffery Koch Cherry Hill, NJ USA, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
Mike Feldman.... read a lot of these comments and you will see that people like me who want a true peace and believe and hope for peace are not the enemies of Israel. Read some of the sick comments on the nytimes.com today about the Prisoner Swap with Hamas. The jpost.com posters who criticize people like me who want to see a two State solution need to save their venom and vile for some of these posters, not me:
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2009/11/25/world/middleeast/25mideast.html
26 | Steve, Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
Mark Jeffery Koch, you might watch this video of the late Rabbi Kahane before the National Press Club: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGFk5jVxeWo The video quality is a little dated but the audio is good enough. Some might object R. Kahane's style. Maybe you think his style too harsh; too strident, yet I wonder about the essence of his message. Please watch this video. I would be interested to learn where you think he is wrong in terms of Jewish law (Torah) as it is understood by most Orthodox rabbis. Do you believe these two peoples - Jews and Muslims - can coexist in the same land?
27 | nuchem, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
Now more potential murderers, kidnappers will say to themselves they have nothing to lose since they will be released in any case.
28 | Claudia, Tampa, FL USA, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
Seems to me if Israel instituted capital punishment (and did not have the outrageous lengthy appeal process as in the states) the problem of having all these blood on their hands terrorists would not be around to be exchanged for kidnapped Israeli's. But terrorist have no honor they could resort to taking children, remember they used to go into kibbutz schools & nurseries and murder them so dare I say some progress has been made? So anyway we could indeed grab Pals off the street and slap them in jail awaiting the next kidnapping exchange. I like that idea whomever said it!
29 | Shel Zahav in Jerusalem, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
Reply to Mark #17.
Sounds like you are a victim of biased press reports. Typical of your kind. While there might be a few supporters of Kahane and Goldshtein, the overwhelming majority of Israelis, including American immigrants to Israel, do not support either of them. Our big problem is the madmen who still support Meretz and Yossi Beilin in the face of their catastrophic errors and inability to learn from their mistakes. Fortunately, this trend that leads to murder, intifadas, and kidnappings has, too, been rejected by the overwhelming majority of Israeli, American immigrants included.
30 | Jonah in Jamaica, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
Is there any reason to believe that exchanging 1000 murderers for Shalit will in any way accrue to Israel's benefit? There may be 1000 reasons why it would not. If releasing any one of the 1000 results in the future loss of a single Israeli life then the trade will have been proven to be a grievous error. While we all feel sorrow for Shalit and his family there is no logic but compassion to the exchange. Countries cannot operate in such a fashion. #4 was correct in his assessment.The exchange for 2 dead soliders with Hizbollah was an error.See how well Iran-Contra worked out.
31 | Ram Venisa from Kfar Sava, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
Reply to #21 Mark Jefferey Koch.
Which American Olim are setting the region ablaze? Who are these people? Naomi Chazan?
32 | Abdul Bakir, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
37 Cuneman. Jew not tell Arab shut up only Arab tell Jew shut up. You killing women chilren that not win
war. Also our women and chilren have gun for fight you. I am dig tunnel with my freind for bring big rockets
Soon we show Jews we ready we will win.Israel also Arabian desert belong Arab. Jew peppel belOng in
Amreica.
33 | Jae US, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
Israels leftist leaders & "elite" are short sighted, myopic, easily pressured, knee-jerk, weaklings. Did I mention they have no spine or testicular fortitude?
450 unrepentant racist, sexist, anti semitic, serial Jew killing terrorists...free to do it again till 72 virgins or another 'jail sentence, whichever comes first.
Good clear thinking here.
34 | JB USA, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
#6alan abey
That is not true.
Repeat, not true that we have to redeem captives. My ancestor, the Maharam- R' Meir of Rothenberg was kidnapped in Italy and held in a dungeon by the church. The church tried to ply money from the Jewish communities in return for releasing the great rabbi as an "exchange" However, the rabbi told the communities NOT to redeem him as this would establish PRECEDENT FOR KIDNAPPING JEWS for ransom.
If this is the case refusing to pay a ransom , ...HOW MUCH MORE SO WITH refusing to pay in terrorists hell bent on murdering your children & mine?
35 | Pam, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
May Gilad Shalit be brought home safely and may no Israelis ever be captured again. May the IDF go get him. We got Eichmann.. we can get Shalit as well.
36 | Shaul, Beit Shemesh, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
To Mark J. Koch, it is clear that you never actually heard Rabbi M. Kahane speak or read his writings, but have instead embraced a false representation of what he held. Kahane never advocated killing Arabs, he advocated paying them to leave Israel. I was not a Kahane supporter (although not strongly opposed either) but anyone who is intellectually honest & not overly worried about being Politically Correct has to acknowledge that virtually every dire prediction Meir Kahane made regarding Arabs in Israel has been proven to be correct. Read his own words and draw your own honest conclusions.
37 | Terry - Eilat, Israel, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
#30 Jonah in Jamaica. Hamas knows how to play us & Israel, as in other similar circumstances, is playing their game. In essence, we are their partner, to our great disadvantage, eagerly allowing ourselves to be the victim in a no-win game. From day 1 of Shalit's kidnapping, we allowed Hamas to establish the rules of the game. We obviously had no pre-established plan or strategy to something that was quite predictable. Our immediate reaction should have been the targeted killing of Hamas leaders, one after the other, to make them personally accountable for Shalit's fate.
38 | Sharona Israel, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
#32 Abdul-Keep writing your ignorance reminds me yet again why no Muslims win Nobel science math or medicine prizes. The land of Israel belongs to the Jews and always has since the time of Abraham. It is you Arabs killing women and children mostly your own. Check the Muslim suicide bombers in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq and even Iran. Hundreds of dead Muslims every week at the hands of other Muslims. Maybe soon you will be in a bombed weapons smuggling tunnel and enjoying your 72 non-existent virgins. They forgot to tell you that the virgins are boys!
39 | Adina Kutnicki, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
It appears that several leftist Jews have become apoplectic at my suggestion that Israel executes one Hamas prisoner a day until Schalit is released, as IF their lives were untouchable-Schalit be damned.Hmm.
As to Kahane, the befuddled posters should read-for starters-'Uncomfortable Questions for Comfortable Jews', then head into 'They Must Go'. I defy anyone, anywhere to find a place where Kahane advocates murdering Arabs, just for being Arabs.In fact, he has MORE respect for Arabs than the leftists AND he predicted ALL that is now transpiring.He was not a prophet, just a proud Jewish realist
40 | lydia, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
38 Muslims invented Petrol, Algebra, Algorithm, Logic e Alphabet, First Hospital, Surgery, First University, Chemistry, Water purification Coffee, Sugar, Maths, Physics, etc etc Think your Nobel prize hold a candle to these awesome forerunners. Anyone with a neuron more than a gibbon knows we can't gain in Afghanistan/Pakistan and Iraq is the Iranian's tar baby with150K stuck fast; as soon as you step out of the US shadows you'll get clobbered. Israel has been killing Arabs for decades to steal their land, the only difference now is that the whole world has caught on to the genocide.
41 | Abdul Bakir, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
38 sharona, Muslim have best medicin from Iran who make sceicnce and nucleer bomb and then Muslim
get Pees Prise. Abrahms is Muslim proofet so land from him belong for Arab, Also Moses is Muslim and
Jews steal him from us.Never woried if virgin is girl or boy all same for enjoy by Alla bless us and give for make victory.
42 | Jericho Calling, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
40 you forgot to add their greatest inventions, Jihad,Ethnic Cleansing,Conversion by the Sword, Female
Circumcism, Child Rape in the guise of marriage to Old Men,Women and Child Abuse and Slavery, Raping
teenage virgins before hanging them justifying the crime by "marrying" them> They've been practising these "Muslim Cultural" "Inventions" for centuries, the only difference is that the whole "civilised" world has caught on to these devious murderers,
43 | andy-london, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
#40 Israel leads the world today in technology and medicne.Your top students from harvard go to study in Israel to the weizmann institute of science,I dont hear of any muslim universities leading the world in anything except maybe how to update new suicide belts, and new childrens books on how best to kill and kidnap jews like Gilad.No you lot only INFILTRATE OUR western universities to sow your murderous ideology.What kind of demonic diety do lot follow?We study for advancement in learning you lot to ADVANCE your vile hatred of jews and christians ect.
44 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
#40. When I drink my coffee in the morning, I will be eternally grateful to the Arabs for "inventing" it. Thankfully, I don't take sugar so I don't have to be too grateful. Some of the "inventions you ascribe to the Arabs might piss off the Chinese, and I still haven't found an Arab who can make a decent chopped liver. #41. You forgot to mention that Netanyahu is also and Arab,
45 | McQueen NYC, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
I hope the posts by Abdul Bakir is a parody/satire. Otherwise this guy is the biggest moron I have ever seen on here.
46 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
#45. McQueen. Abdul Bakir is one of lydia's alter egos. She often does this to make points that she doesn't want credited to her name.
47 | Carver, USA, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
Please tell me when, at any point in history, have murderers and thugs ever responded rationallly, constructively, or morally to their enemy's weakness. To think that prisoner exchanges will lead to reasonable dialog is really quite foolish and ignorant. (I wish Obama would understand that, but we in the US have spinless leaders, foolish and ignorant.) Be strong, Israel, in the face of brutality and bloodthirstiness. Lead the world! Don't let my country, or others, banish you to another ghetto!
48 | John, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
The reason why prisoner swaps continue to happen is very simple. Israel has imprisoned a large number of Palestinians mostly on trumped up bull shit charges. The few who ever do see a day in court go before a court that would make kangaroos look like they have fair and impartial trials by comparison. That's the real reason why Israel does prisoner swaps and will continue to do so as more and more Israeli's are kidnapped and held hostage which is no different in essence than what Israel is doing to the Palestinians with their system of JUST US.
49 | cares1996, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
israel hold`s its soldiers life in high regard,as it should,i beleive many the world`s armed forces have a no man left behind credo,
50 | cares1996, Wednesday Nov 25, 2009
#3 why don`t u employ your own mind,doesn`t it sound strange that god would tell u to kill people,why would a god advocate war,read the book yourself,its likely a few phrases outta thousands got blown out of porportion,#3 the fight u seek is un-winnable,isn`t gonna be a winner,and if what u seek is unattainable than your better of trying something acheivable,I AM IN ALL HONESTY INFORMING YOU,THERE`S NOT A CHANCE, ISRAEL HAS SOME RESOURCES THAT GAURAUNTEE YOUR FAILURE,MAN THIS IS A PATH OF DESTRUCTION, ITS BEST TO GET OFF IT,READ THE BOOK YOURSELF,ITS NOT NECESSARY TO DIE.
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