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Thursday Oct 01, 2009
Rosner's Domain: Netanyahu's new supporters: Reform JewsPosted by SHMUEL ROSNER
Comments: 24      Follow Rosner's Domain on Twitter! / Join me on Facebook! Differences between Orthodox, Conservative and Reform Jews on matters of current affairs are to be expected - as IPA's blog remarks: When asked: "Do you approve or disapprove of the Obama Administration's handling of U.S.-Israel relations?" 54% approved and 32% disapproved. One could have expected the Orthodox to be the outlier here - and indeed, 70% of Orthodox respondents disapproved of Obama's policies. The survey we're talking about here is AJC's annual survey of Jewish opinion on which I wrote extensively yesterday (read it here). Today: a couple of notes on the breakdowns of numbers by both denomination and age. Here we go... 1. It's a question we've asked many times in the past in many different formats: will the young change their minds when they grow older - or will they stay the same and radically change American Judaism and Israel-Diaspora relations? Take a look. Only the 60+ think in ways that Israelis can understand: On Obama's handling of US-Israel relations: Approve DisapproveUnder 40 54 29 40-59 57 29 60 plus 49 38 But is it really a more conservative "old" vs. more moderate "young"? Not if you ask about possible division of Jerusalem: Yes No Under 40 34 60 40-59 33 61 60 plus 40 53 Confused? I think you've good reason. 2. Differences between denominations will not be as surprising. Perfect example: ask about dismantling settlements and here's what you get: SOME ALL NONE Orthodox 7 34 57 Conservative 5 52 41 Reform 10 54 33 Now, think about any other question you might want to ask, and you get the same result. Orthodox far to the right, Reform on the left, Conservative in between. That's tradition. 3. One surprising outcome. Reform seem to be more supportive of Netanyahu than the Orthodox: Netanyahu government
handling of US-Israel Relations: Approve Disapprove Orthodox 57 23 Conservative 67 19 Reform 63 24 Why? that's easy. In the Orthodox community many believe that Netanyahu - Netanyahu! - was making too many concessions and moving to the left.
1 | Shel Zahav, Thursday Oct 01, 2009
These numbers are silly and meaningless. However, it is good if some Reform Jews (or any Jews) in America feel closer to Israel and want to help. We are all one people.
2 | ina-scotland, Thursday Oct 01, 2009
I think netanyahu is a very good prime minister and strong too.Just like king david united the 12 tribes of Israel it would be good to see ALL the jewish people round the world get behind the State Of Israel and give it a lot more moral and financial support.Of course you will always have your Judases but apart from them it would be good to see.
3 | ml fisher, Thursday Oct 01, 2009
It amazes me how any thinking Jew can support Obama. Obama is a 20 year disciple at Rev Wrong's alter of hate (hate for America and hate for Israel). My wife is Puerto Rican, and Puerto Rican's tend to vote Democratic. Yet if Obama went to a Puerto Rican hating church for 20 years, not 1 Puerto Rican would of voted for him.Puerto Ricans take pride in their heritage. Jews don't. Hate me...kill me... if you are a Democrat we will still vote for you. Something is very wrong, what is it Jewish America, what is it?
By the way, I am Jewish.
4 | Dave, Israel, Thursday Oct 01, 2009
#3 Jews want to be accepted more than anything else. After living at the mercy of the world for 2000 years, Jews have learned to survive by pleasing the powers that be. They were neo-cons 8 years ago, and now they are all staunch liberals. Most Jews haven't had their 40 years in the desert to become independent, like Israelis are today. American Jews are a scared minority that is too selfish and spoiled to do anything but perpetuate causes that are in it's own self-interest, and present an image they feel comfortable with.
5 | Ronald USA, Thursday Oct 01, 2009
I don't know how to interpret this survey. I have no idea why Reform Jews approve of Netanyahu 63% to disapprove 24% on his relations with the US. The fact is: Netanyahu has pretty much stiffed Obama on the policies Obama wanted to pursue with Israel. I think that is great, but I don't understand liking Obama AND liking Netanyahu at the same time.
6 | Daniel Rosenthal Monsey, NY, Thursday Oct 01, 2009
Netanyahu is making a mistake if he caves in to Obama's pressure on Israel to make endless suicidal concessions. Simply put Obama is not a friend of Israel. In fact he is an enemy of Israel. See the blog
WWW.AMERICANJEWSAGAINSTOBAMA.BLOGSPOT.COM for more about how caving in to Obama will only encourage Obama to demand even more suicidal concessions.
7 | Morag, Scotland, Friday Oct 02, 2009
In my opinion, I wouldn't trust obama as far as I could throw him and that's not hellish far. He is about the worst (besides Carter) who mever run the USA Government. Obama is NOT for real. He loathes israel as much as he loathes Christians. Nothing would convince me that Obama is not a muslim. He reeks of arab. What stands out more than anything is that bow he made to the Saudi king. I suppose he thought he was going to get away with that "gesture" to just another human-being. This king will go up in smoke just as quick as any of us will.
8 | Ron, Tel Aviv, Friday Oct 02, 2009
I am disappointed in the Conservative numbers. 52% supporting dismantling all settlements? Somewhat shocking for me. Almost identical to reform numbers. I guess I'm not so familiar with the American conservative movement moving so far left. I thought I identified with this movement in some senses, I guess not.
Hag Sameach to all.
9 | Bill Collins, Spokane, Friday Oct 02, 2009
From 1945-1948 the UK violently suppressed the Jewish people. They (libs) blamed you for the troubling them with your desire to survive! Now it's 2009 and Obama, Carter, and the same euro trash clowns are attempting to attack Israel again. These people want to divide you against yourselves. Worst part is that Livni, her followers, + the american Jews are buying into it. So what will you get in return for supporting Obama, 1/2 of Jerusalem, 1948 borders,1.6 million arabs in your country, no settlements and condemnation if you try to kick the arab out of what's left of your country.
10 | Daran, Friday Oct 02, 2009
From 1917 the UK has fostered Jews living in the land of Israel, often with force of arms and lives of Brits in the defence of Jews, how many other nations can Bill name which could say the same?
11 | Judas Iscariot, L.A., Friday Oct 02, 2009
Friday, 10/02/09 common era
I was raised in the Reform movement but came back to Torah when I turned age 40. U.S. Reform "Jews" are not all Jewish according to Halacha. Rather than persist in their liberal western tradition, they should learn about G-d's 7 Noahide Laws for Gentiles. Most Reform "rabbis" couldn't successfully compete in any high school Yeshiva's annual Bible contest. These "rabbis" are very much into interfaith p.r.
12 | Ken, Oregon, USA, Saturday Oct 03, 2009
Don't give in Netanyahu, to Obama or anyone. Obama is not for Israel or the United States either. One day not to far all the land from the Mediterranean Sea to the Euphrates River will belong to the Jews. God promise and He never lies.
I'am a non Jew but I support you.
13 | TH/Ramat-Gan, Saturday Oct 03, 2009
Rosner in for question 2 table you mixed column 'Some' with column 'All".
14 | Sonny, Saturday Oct 03, 2009
Im a Christian and find my opinions on the issues facing Israel in line more with the Orthodox Jews. In the world of politics Obama has more baggage than previous presidents. His associations with Rev. Wright and left wing radicals like Aires have followed him into the Wht House. The thing that really bothers me is the fact hes a Chicago politician. As far as change we can believe in at my age Ive heard to many promises by to many politicians, in to many campaigns to start believe their rhetoric. Peace will come to the M. E. when Moslems remember that Jews are also the seed of Abraham.
15 | Reform Jew, Saturday Oct 03, 2009
Don't count ME in that crowd. I detest Netanyahu as a slick demagogue , as does erveryone else with two cents of sechel !
16 | Bill Collins, Spokane, Saturday Oct 03, 2009
Daran, UK did pass certain legislation (Balfor Declaration) to promote a Jewish state in 1917, even at force of arms. They allowed a few to move into Palestine and then promptly reneged after war to promote nationalistic views. Thus they continued with a policy to severely restrict any further Jewish immigration into the land even after the House of Rothchild (Jews) financed their war against Germany. Therefore, the UK kept the Jews from entering their own land by arresting, shooting and deporting them, so why all the revisionist history?
17 | Daran, Saturday Oct 03, 2009
Bill, its not revisionist to say the things i have, its factual, its also true that UK sort to limit jewish immigration after the war. did not the US UK commision also reach that conclusion too? was the US wrong to seek limitations, no doubt your view is yes. But my point is that the limitations where an attempt to "manage" immigration not stop it . So hardly the "violent suppression" of Jews as you seemed to imply. Not forgeting those whom my opinion (and the yishuv at the time )needed targeting those who sort to influence events by using terror campaign. lehi and the like.
18 | Dav Lev, Saturday Oct 03, 2009
The stats showing very little difference. I would have included the disaffected, disenfranchised,
Jews w/o any affiliation, Jewish self-haters, and Jews who converted away in this study.
Let's be honest, few Jews attend synagogue regularly. Many Jews have no particular interest
in Judaism or Israel for that matter.
II would also ask a Jew how once can be Jewish and for same sex marriages ( refert to Torah).
I would have asked how any Jew could have voted for Obama, given his background, Muslim
heritage, attendence at Wright's church for 20 years..association. etc.
19 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Saturday Oct 03, 2009
Daran. I don't know if you're prevaricating, or you have misread Bil Collins #16. Is it your assertion that it was correct for Britain to "manage" Jewish immigration to the home they had been granted? That to me would imply at the least that Britain felt it had a responsibily to reneg on the promise they had made. Then you go on to say that the UK sought to limit immigration even after the war. Who did that benefit? Was the UK fearful that the Jews move to their homeland? I wonder what your opinion is of those who to-day seek to influence events with a terror campaign.
20 | HistoryProf Aaron in NJ, Sunday Oct 04, 2009
Daran, would you like me to recommend some books for you to read? Let me start my suggesting that anything written by Ilan Pappe is only worth lining the cage of a pet. He's a polemicist, not an historian (he routinely fudges his source info.). Conversely, Benny Morris is decent, albeit very friendly to the Palestinian cause. His research is overall good, his writing not so much, and he is often opinionated. I'll put together a real list for you if you'd like however.
21 | Proud Progessive Jew Maryland, USA, Sunday Oct 04, 2009
To #4 and #3, I find both of your comments to be disingenous and self serving. I find Obama to be a compelling individual with many intelligent and well thought out ideas unlike his predecessor whose simplistic logic and inability to pronounce the word "nuclear" I found very disturbing. Obama has repeatedly stated his support for the Jewish people and Israel. With regards to the commentary of #4, most Jews are neither neocons or staunch liberals. They are proud of their 350 year history and their religious freedom as Americans. They support Israel, but don't have to move there to make a point!
22 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Sunday Oct 04, 2009
#21. I trust that as a proud progressive you favour income redistribution. That would make it easy for you to find Obama a compelling individual with many intelligent and well thought out ideas. It would also make it easy for you to denigrate his predecessor whose ideas obviously did not conform to your ideals. The electorate who put Bush in office twice was obvoously dumb like Bush, those who voted for Obama must be smart like you. Obama has repeatedly stated his support for a lot of things if they were politically expedient. I'm glad he can pronounce "nuclear", it should be his primary concern.
23 | Jesse Joseph, NYC, Monday Oct 05, 2009
Our relatives still like Obama. All of us are Jewish and yet, it seems Obama can do no wrong. We feel (wife and myself) Obama is wrong in just about everything. How can we deal with this attitude of Obamamania?
24 | David, Monday Oct 05, 2009
The REALLY INTERESTING statistic in all this is that 34% OF ORTHODOX believe ALL SETTLEMENTS SHOULD BE DISMANTLED!!!
I'm one of those. We are not all far to the Right. On Israel many of us believe in Torah morality, and on domestic issues support a liberal view that people should be left alone to practise their religion without government interference and the imposition of Christian morality.
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