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Tuesday Aug 25, 2009
Rosner's Domain: Israeli and Palestinian majorities do not believe peace is within reachPosted by SHMUEL ROSNER
Comments: 87      Follow Rosner's Domain on Twitter!!! The latest Israeli-Palestinian poll of the Truman Institute for the Advancement of Peace is now available online. On the eve of Netanyahu's meeting with special envoy George Mitchell, it's worth some close examination. Here, for example, is what Israelis and Palestinians think about settlement-blocks and about Jerusalem - those areas in which Israel doesn't really want to halt construction: Among Palestinians 48% support or strongly support and
50% oppose or strongly oppose an Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank
and the Gaza Strip with the exception of some settlement areas in less
than 3% of the West Bank that would be swapped with an equal amount of
territory from Israel in accordance with a map that was presented to
the Palestinian respondents. The map was identical to that presented to
respondents in December 2008, when support for this compromise, with
its map, stood at 54% and opposition at 44%. Among Israelis, 34% agree and 62% disagree to this arrangement in which the Arab neighborhoods in Jerusalem including the old city and the Temple Mount will come under Palestinian sovereignty, the Jewish neighborhoods including the Jewish quarter and the Wailing Wall will come under Israeli sovereignty, East Jerusalem will become the capital of the Palestinian state and West Jerusalem the capital of Israel. In December 2008, 40% supported this arrangement and 60% opposed it. No wonder that: Palestinians and Israelis do not consider it likely that an independent Palestinian State will be established next to the State of Israel in the next five years. 68% of the Palestinians and 69% among Israelis think that chances for the establishment of an independent Palestinian State next to the State of Israel are non-existent or low; 30% and 28% respectively believe the chances are medium or high.Avigdor Lieberman was merely speaking for the majority.
1 | Stan Goodman - Israel, Tuesday Aug 25, 2009
What is this "Wailing Wall" mentioned in the article? Does the author mean to say "Western Wall"? If so, why doesn't he say so?
2 | David Watson, London UK, Tuesday Aug 25, 2009
Hmm, both sides dislike it (and in strikingly similar proportions) - sounds like a good compromise to me.
3 | Yacov Yosifovitch, NYC. I.A.M Dan Meridor is correct, Tuesday Aug 25, 2009
Mr. Dan Meridor said lately, "We have no religious claim on Jerusalem; we have a national one. Jerusalem is our capital!" Interesting: IF Pre-Islam Idol Worshipers, via Mr. MUHAMMAD & CO., suddenly turned ISLAMi, can take the "iDOLS" out of the KABBA and 'NATIONALIZE" MECCA as the Center of Islam; AND since the "Direction' of MECCA, Jedda Saudi Arabia, was changed out of Jealousy & declared the direction that ALL Islam must face, iNSTEAD OF JERUSALEM for Prayer/Meditation/Contemplation lalala, THAT that means ISRAEL, Today, as a ex-HALAKAH Nation, turned SECULAR can claim JERUSALEM its Capital!
4 | Yacov Yosifovith :SECULanity inthe 'SABRA-NATION' @JERUSALEM, Tuesday Aug 25, 2009
"SECULAR"anity, in America is "Federally" recognized as being a "RELIGION!"! And It is also recognized 'Federally' in "THE--S-A-B-R-A--NATiON" of greater Eretz Yisroel too [NO Exceptions]. So THEOCRATIC Heads of State or even MONARCHic heads of state cannot pale in comparison, to NATURAL-MORALITY, via RULE-of-LAW, of a SECULAR-NATION"s divine like Purpose! And for "SECULAR-FOLK", not only for ATHEISTS or AGNOSTICS lalala That "H-O-P-E" is everyones Concern RE-G-DLESS of RELIGION [Man-Made or G-D Made]. HOPE is bornFROM: HiSTORY &history is our JURY/JUDGE/WiTNESS on a Holy Cosmic Mission&Move.
5 | Bekele/Ethiopia, Tuesday Aug 25, 2009
How do you expect peace without fear of the Lord? If you want durable peace please follow the instructios of God Almighty. Be obedience to him. Do not go against his unbreakable word. You need to have attitude change. Submit yourself to God. Avoid your earthly wisdom and do not take your strategy and weapons as a means to peace. I encourage you to read and understand a verse from a Holy Bible, Isaiah 9:6-8. Do not reject the Lord, the prince of peace. The root and offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star is on his Holy throne!
May God open your eyes and see his glory.
6 | Yacov Yosifovitch :MECCAN's attacked GAZA & JERU 632-637 AD., Tuesday Aug 25, 2009
continued: Did YE knowth that around/between 632 AD (Year Muhammad Died) & 637 AD (Al Aqsa Land claimed to build Dome/Mosque) MUHAMMADs ARMY's from the SOUTH ARABIAN's Deserts 'iNVADED'/ 'ATTACKED' [uninvited] GAZAN's & JERUSALITES and thus many Idol Worshipping LEVANTians [not dark ARABs, but lighter] PAGANs was "forced"/"Converted" into copy-cat Mono-Theo?? JUDEO-abe- "iSLAm" [SUBMISSION] Religion System.? And Since "HISTORY iS OUR JURY..." that when it comes to "TRUST" that from a SECULAR-MiND; ALLAH & it's 99 names; Can't be Trusted to run Things on S.pace-Ship Earth; atleast not Now!
7 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Tuesday Aug 25, 2009
I think a very important point is being missed here, The Chosen One, President Obama, will soon turn his attention to the Middle East. He will explain to the Israelis and the Palestinians that they don't understand the central issues for everlasting peace as they are misinformed, He will hold town hall meetings in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank. I'd say by New Year's Eve Hamas, Fatah and Likud will hold a giant co-spronsored party, with Obama as the guest of honor, to celebrate the new era of good will.
8 | More-Good-Reasons to SECULARize-JERUSALEM,not RELIGIONIZE IT, Tuesday Aug 25, 2009
Another Good Reason to "SECULARiZE" JERU, instead of RELiGiONiZing It, as the Capital of a "MODERN-STATE-OF-iSRAEL", is because on microscope The CONSTITUTION OF CANAANITES (PALi's) includes ALLAH, iSLAM etc therein. & so theyre not SECULAR. And Abbas & Fatah & Co., cannever claim Jerusalem as a PALi Secular-State as long as the PALi'S Constitution mentions ALLAH or Muhammd or iSLAM lalala. Interesting: Eretz, the "SABRA-NATION" aka modern but "Secular-Israelites" (a Religion in it's own Holy-Cosmic-Right) should Never make refrence as being a JUDEO-JUiSH State Else do-not Capitalize JERU!?
9 | psk, Tuesday Aug 25, 2009
There is no chance of peace in five or even ten years, maybe more. Generations must pass before peace is possible; and it may be that with the passing of generations peace becomes less likely. Maybe when non-Orthodox conversions are permitted on Mars...
10 | andy-london, Tuesday Aug 25, 2009
If you gave the pallis the west bank the golan and half of jerusalem it woudn't do as they'd need ALL Israel.Then they'd take over jordan as 70% of them live there and then they'd look to syria and say that half of them had been driven out 500 years ago and after all it belongs to them.Can a crocodile have enough?The world has REALLY NO time for them.but some people like a cause and even though they PRETEND to agree with them [like your inhuman rights gang and stop the war cowards] they crave publicity above all NOT THE PALLIS cause that's for certain.
11 | Chaim - Israel, Tuesday Aug 25, 2009
Whether we like it or not, the only true path to peace for Israel and "Palestinians" is the WW II path to peace. This means militarily crushing the opposition until they surrender unconditionally as the Allies did to Germany and Japan. Not a pleasant process but look at the results. Generations of peace in Europe and Asia with no end in sight. This is how peace is achieved in the real world. Not through dangerous appeasement, a phony "peace process" and singing kumbaya together. Israel must completely crush "Palestinians" militarily, with no concessions, before peace can be achieved.
12 | David W. Lincoln, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, Tuesday Aug 25, 2009
Unless property rights are entrenched for all in Arab lands, not just for some, peace talks are as useless as sun glasses at midnight. The first step needs to be taken, and then the second. Not the last step first, and then some convoluted process which far more often than not, results in a mess.
13 | Shel Zahav, Tuesday Aug 25, 2009
In Israel, the people are far smarter than the politicians. Among the Arabs, the politicians agree with the people. In Israel, the peace process really turns into a debate among different types of leftists about "what the Arabs really want". The debat goes like this: Hamas says, "We are part of the Muslim Brotherhood and we support global jihad and the destruction of Israel." Some on he Israeli Left hear "If they only had jobs, they would be peaceful." Other leftists conclude that it isn't jobs, but medicine in their hospitals. The 3rd group says, "It's both." That's the debate about peace.
14 | Shelley, Australia, Tuesday Aug 25, 2009
Israel belongs to Israel. These so called Palestinians have no claim to one inch of Israel.
Go back, back to before the Romans, and even when Israel was under Roman occupation, no such thing as arab muslim palestinians then, and there still wasn't up until recently.
Jerusalem was called the city of David, and it is only pure greed as to why muslims want it, since they already have Mecca.
I do not believe peace with these people is possible, I believe give them an inch, they will take a mile, they wil not be happy until they have squeesed Israel out.
15 | Claudia, Tampa, FL USA, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
#13 Shel! You are absolutely right! Liberals have their own little world as to why anything happens. They simply can not come to terms with the fact the Muslims jihadists especially, and Muslims in general, mean exactly what they say. That doesn't fit in with a liberal's pc world view. What is so terribly dangerous about that is that despite their history they never learn that liberal progressive view has failed time after time. It has got to be a mental affliction!
16 | lydia, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
11 Chaim, you and which Army is going to 'crush' 2bil. Muslims into submission. Despite trumpeting your overwhelming victory over all of the ME in Israel's preemptive 6dayswar, your great army has been unable to defeat a bunch of rag tag army of resistance fighters. If the Arabs hadn't decided to RESIST Israel's occupation, apartheid, subjugation and mass murder, Israel would have continued unabated its expansionism across Arab land.
17 | lydia, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
14. Israel belongs to Israel within the confines of its declared 'jewish state' enshrined in res. 181. Anything outside these borders do not belong to Israel and constitutes a 'land grab'. If the indigenous people of Palestine do not have a claim to the land they have lived on, toiled and traded on for centuries, you betcha a bunch of est. European Khazar pagan converts or your more recent converts and their decision to supplant themselves amongst the people of the ME, have not a 'snowball chance in hell' to expect that the Muslims will acquiesce.
18 | Terry - Eilat, Israel, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Chaim & Shel Zahav. The biggest lie, deception, fraud, & delusion is that the creation of a Palestinian state will end the conflict. The truth is exactly the opposite - it will create more conflict.
19 | GOLDEN NUGGET Australia, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
#14 Shelly...SPOT ON Mate...to put a lie to muslim "claims"...(1) GENUINE muslims comprise and are CONFINED to those of the "Mecca and Madena" rabble peasant lots who embraced a carbon copy of Judaism and having stolen it set about to defile and murder the victim of their theft..they have not nor EVER will succeed...(2) FAKE or FALSE muslims comprise those of the VICTIMS of JIHAD who were converted by the bloodthirstly "Sword of Islam" (which muslims consider "honourable" and boast about) which include Aryan Persia ME and other countries on the map which wear the "label" of "muslim" !!
20 | jonathan, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
lydia, your understanding of history shows that you know nothing. these "indigenous" people orginate from Egypt and Jordan. If you want to learn about history, Jews were orginally called Palestinian. Its only in the last 60 years that Palestinians are referred to Arabs. This means "indigenous" people are actually the Jews. We have a history in this land more than 3000 years they only have 60 years of history. Its also quite strange that before the 67 war the so-called "Palestinians" were absorbed into Egypt and Jordan and they dont want them back anymore. I wonder why???
21 | Terry - Eilat, Israel, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
#20 Jonathan. I have one simple question. Why do Palestinians call themselves Palestinians?
Is there any other group on Earth that does not have a name for themselves in their own language?
What does this tell you?
22 | Shel Zahav, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Dear Lydia, Your anti-Semitic diatribe belies your expressed opinions. Most so-called Balestinians are bedouin who came to the region about 300 years go and are nomadic, not indigenous. Most of the rest still carry their family names which indicate that they came from Algeria, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, etc. DNA evidence supports this, however, the Muslim's magnificent capacity for self-delusion does not.
23 | jonathan, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Terry, Palestinians took on that name after 48 when Jews became Israelis. Initially there were Jewish Palestinians and Arab Palestinians. Of course at the time before the Intafada's Jews and Arabs lived peacefully and there were no such things as border controls etc. remember the Palestinians did this to themselves. Its not the fault of the Jews as the world may refer to it. Unfortunatley Israel inherited the problem and no other surrounding country would take part of the responsibility. These poor people are just hanging in the balance and of course mixed signals causes oppression and unrest
24 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Interesting how one poster can repeat the same revision of history day after day, and we all react as if we've read it for the first time. We are providing undeserved motivation to see these posts repeated, regardless of the topic.
25 | Sally - U.S.A., Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
lydia - how can it be a land grab from two countries, Egypt & Jordan, who had grabbed the land in 1948 in the first place & Israel had fought a defensive war in 1967. (Unless the land grabbers to which you are referring are Egypt & Jordan.)
26 | lydia, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
20.22 Stop with the name calling. The whole world is anti Semite. "Balestinians are bedouin" It doesn't matter what they are. The question is what are YOU! Res.181 gave you a 'jewish state' It allowed you a squat on Muslim land, honor it and stay within your declared borders. The agreements you signed with the Arabs, honor them and stop stealing their land. The undertaking you made with the UN, abide by them and cease your violation. European emigre, their names and DNA do not support your claim. The law is the law, Israel is no more 'chosen' than all the other member nations.
27 | Alan-USA, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Whether we like it not-NO Peace Until MESSIAH! Not One Second Sooner. In The Meantime "Pray For The Peace of Jerusalem." and GOD'S Mercy.
28 | lydia, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
26 Until you are blue in the face. Israel unilaterally declared its 'jewish state' enshrined in res.181. Anything outside these declared borders does not belong to Israel and since you can't acquire land through war and since its illegal to remove the original people and supplant them with your est. European emigre, I guess its blatant land theft. Israel is in violation of UN resolutions. Netanyahu,can travel the World, he will find NO other country except the US that allows its veto to be abused by Israel as it continues in violation of Int. laws and avoid facing its obligation.
29 | GOLDEN NUGGET Australia, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
#24 MIKE....I get you...you are right...it's getting monotonous witnessing this poster get screwed day after day finishing up bruised and battered....however it's fun witnessing this clown get progresively
more and more irrelevant !!
30 | lydia, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
26 Until you are blue in the face. Israel unilaterally declared its 'jewish state' enshrined in res.181. Anything outside these declared borders does not belong to Israel and since you can't acquire land through war and since its illegal to remove the original people and supplant them with your est. European emigre, I guess its blatant land theft. Israel is in violation of UN resolutions. Netanyahu,can travel the World, he will find NO other country except the US that allows its veto to be abused by Israel as it continues in violation of Int. laws and avoid facing its obligation.
31 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Sally and others who have responded to lydia to-day. I respectfully suggest that you go to the blog of August 13th, Obama and Israel etc and read lydia's post numbers 79, 86, 90, 95, 96, 99, 100, 101, 104, 108, 109, 110, 113, 114 and 116. If you still think you can enlighten her with the truth, go ahead. In case you don't know, to find August 13th, go to the bottom of currently listed blogs, click "NEXT" and scroll to August 13th. Happy reading.
32 | Chaim - Israel, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
#16 Lydia. Your post accusing Israel of "mass murder" and other atrocities is a no different than Anti-Semitic medieval blood libels. There isn't the slightest truth to this monstrous lie. Nor does Israel have any desire to conquer anyone. We simply demand the right to live in our ancient ancestral Homeland. You are truly a pathetic, hateful creature.
33 | Sally - U.S.A., Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Lydia - please answer my question. thank you. I'll repeat it: How can it be land grabbing from two countries, Egypt & Jordan, who had grabbed the land in 1948 in the first place & Israel had fought a defensive war in 1967. (Unless the land grabbers to which you are referring are Egypt & Jordan.)
34 | Sally - U.S.A., Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Lydia - please answer my question. thank you. I'll repeat it: How can it be land grabbing from two countries, Egypt & Jordan, who had grabbed the land in 1948 in the first place & Israel had fought a defensive war in 1967. (Unless the land grabbers to which you are referring are Egypt & Jordan.)
35 | Sally - U.S.A., Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Mike, I will let you in on a little secret. I am under no illusion that I will convence people like Lydia or that other fellow, I forgot his name. My purpose is to convence the reader who does not know but stumbles onto these blogs. Lydia, et al, can yell UN until they are blue in the face. Do they think that just because a law or resolution is passed that it is just. If that is the case, then I guess they think that separate but equal was just in the U.S. Or that settlements was added ex parte to the Geneva Convention in 1979 (The U.S. constitution prohibits ex parte laws so how would Obama
36 | Sally - U.S.A., Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
a teacher of constitutional law explain doing something that the U.S. constitution finds obhorrant.) by that raving anti-semite Carter. These people have compassion for the Arab Palestinians - what of their compassion for the million of people slaughtered in Rwanda, the people murdered & raped & underage (7 year olds) conscripted in Darfur which Obama ignors, or the Israelis murdered & terrorized by Hamas, Arafat, etc... Do they think changing the truth, resorting to reinventing history, moral equvalancy, ignoring the facts is just or compassionate?
37 | Duncan Lennox, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Go Lydia. Zionism is the problem. The world sees that a Jewish homeland was created by the UN in 1947 (via some arm twisting to get the votes of nations like Liberia ,Haiti, etc) at the expense of the indigenous people of Pal`n. The Zionist leaders were happy to agree to this resolution then but now deny it as it restricts their expansion/land theft & ethnic cleansing activities over the last 61 years.It is a ploy to talk about the Pal`s as living on Israeli land vs the truth of the ethnic cleansing of Pal`n. Israeli archaeologists say: no Exodus or Joshua ergo no promised land or covenant.
38 | s, chicago, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
to shelley from australia,
well maybe you aren't going back far enough because before there were israelites there there were other people living there. So when you want to use ancient history to justify ethnic cleansing and racism etc at least get your facts straight. Also those blond giants that are occupying westbank don't really look like they belong there if you want to talk about belonging...
39 | s, chicago, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
"Israel had fought a defensive war in 1967"
Please. A defensive war. That war was provoked by the israelis. They needed that war to grab themselves some more land.
The good thing with israel being in the news every 2 seconds is that people are finally starting to get a little educated about what happened in palestine. Thank god your own leaders were more honest than you are about israel's history.
40 | s, chicago, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
i can't believe there are still people that bring God into this debate. This is probably the least holy of all holy lands. If there is a God and he knows what is going on and the theft of land in his name he must be at the point of despair. What a joke.
41 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Sally. I'll take one on for you. #39. "s" chigago. Israel "provoked\' the 1967 war. Of course, Nasser expelling the United Nations Emergency Force, in violation of the 1956 Agreements wasn't provocation. Closing the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping could be looked at as a minor irritation.
Hey, isn't Israel overreacting by getting worked up about Egypt moving 100,000 troops and 1,000 tanks into the Sinai Why worry about Jordan placing 55,000 troops and 300 tanks under Egyptian command? The 75,000 Syrian troops on your Eastern border are just looking over the real estate.
CONT
42 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Sally. I'll take one on for you. #39. "s" chigago. Israel "provoked\' the 1967 war. Of course, Nasser expelling the United Nations Emergency Force, in violation of the 1956 Agreements wasn't provocation. Closing the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping could be looked at as a minor irritation.
Hey, isn't Israel overreacting by getting worked up about Egypt moving 100,000 troops and 1,000 tanks into the Sinai Why worry about Jordan placing 55,000 troops and 300 tanks under Egyptian command? The 75,000 Syrian troops on your Eastern border are just looking over the real estate.
CONT
43 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Mike Feldman - cont - The arms and troop support from Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Tunisia and Morocco were just part of the warm welcome the Arab countries were trying to give the Israel which was living within the 1947 borders. Those trigger-happy Israelis had to go and provoke their friendly neighbours. I guess "s" chicago, and Duncan Lennox would think its fair if the Arab armies move back into the territories as the Israelis pull out, so we can set the clock back 42 years. Oh ya, I forgot that 42 years ago there was no Palestinian "crisis. Seems like someone miscalculated with someone else's future.
44 | lydia, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
31 I am flattered you hold onto my every word. Keep them close and learn from them.
45 | lydia, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
34. Sally "because a law or resolution is passed that it is just" waa waa she bawls "the law is unjust". Next time you get pulled over by a cop use that line ie the law "is unjust" Your mob clamored to join the UN and were happy to agree to its laws now you realize you unilateral declaration was too smart by half, you want to supplant a bastardize population amongst the indigenous people to steal the land you covet. The World is waking up to your mendacity, the Muslims already did. You have only one Savior and he is POTUS so rip him to shred at your peril like you did your other hosts.
46 | Terrence Boston, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
40. you make me sick. How do you mean bring G-d in debate.? Did u make the world? Israel will never have peace until they accept Yeshua Hamashiach,the Prince of Peace and cease giving His land to those who do not need Peace.Joel 3:2 if you believe His word.
47 | lover of Israel, Argentina, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
Would you please answer one Question: Why do you use "Haram al Sharif" (... The Old City (including al Haram al Sharif) when talking about the Arabs responses, and you use "the Temple Mount" (... in Jerusalem including the old city and the Temple Mount) when talking about the Isralies answers?
Why so much "respect" (that I agree with) with the muslim name and zero respect for the Jewish - Hebrew name?
It make me feel very uncomfortable.
48 | lydia, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
32 What do you call a regime that corals its defenseless citizens onto an overcrowded ghetto then mows them down with state of the art US weaponry, white phosphorus, cluster bomb, dime missiles etc. if not mass murderers. I betcha you thought we should acknowledge Hitler's regime of mass murders but your lot practicing the same ethnic cleansing on hapless Palestinians you'd expect to call them what "the chosen Angels". Get real!
49 | lydia, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
36 "murdered and terrorized by Hamas etc". Your lot did such a splendid job of tarring Arafat as corrupt that now the Palestinians won't touch Abbas/Fatah with a long pole. Hamas your Israeli progeny is perceived as being incorruptible and have morphed into a formidable resistance to Israel's illegal occupation and genocide of the Palestinians, whose land you covet. The US supervised election gave Hamas legitimacy but instead of abiding by the agreements you set out to circumvent the rulings with your Indiscriminate killings and incarceration of the elected members of their Government.
50 | Tom, US, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
The most antisemitic people on planet earth. Unlike the Khazars from Europe who are squatting on Palestinian land, the Palestinians actually are a Semitic people. So when you European Khazars scream antisemite and point that racist finger just keep in mind that 4 more fingers are pointing right back at your racist and antisemitic ass !
51 | Israel lover, Argentina, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
Would you please answer one Question: Why do you use "Haram al Sharif" (... The Old City (including al Haram al Sharif) when talking about the Arabs responses, and you use "the Temple Mount" (... in Jerusalem including the old city and the Temple Mount) when talking about the Isralies answers?
Why so much "respect" (that I agree with) with the muslim name and zero respect for the Jewish - Hebrew name?
It make me feel very uncomfortable.
52 | lydia, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
s, chicago I'll take on #42 for you. The 1967 was a preemptive war waged on the unsuspecting Arabs, as preemptive as the attack on USS Liberty, had you managed to sink the Liberty, the Arabs would have no proof that you had in fact thrown the first punch. Hauled before the Int. Court you have been forced to return the stolen loot. ALL the land despite your protestation to the contrary has still not been returned and the Muslims have had to forcibly eject you from MOST of Lebanon and Gaza, which has, unfortunately, now become a cause celebre for Hamas and Hezbollah and all Muslims worldwide.
53 | Shel Zahav, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
Poor Lydia. How you are so able to ignore facts in your diatribes! You conveniently forget a little tiny fact called THE ARABS REFUSED TO RECOGNIZE THAT THERE COULD BE A JEWISH STATE ANYWHERE IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND ATTACKED ISRAEL IN 1948 CONTRARY TO THE UN VOTE OF NOVEMBER 1947. What has changed? Any Arab country in the region that stretched out its hand in peace got a peace treaty in return. Those would be Egypt and Jordan. If Lebanon would do the same, they would get a peace agreement as well. Your nasty attitude does not contribute to anything but bad feeling.
54 | Sally - U.S.A., Thursday Aug 27, 2009
Thanks Mike. Well said. Lydia, you still did not answer my question.
55 | Sally - U.S.A., Thursday Aug 27, 2009
Thanks Mike. Well said. Lydia, you still did not answer my question.
56 | Shel Zahav, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
To s Chicago, the biggest ethnic cleansing in the Middle East was certainly done by Muslims. The Turks are not from Turkey, are they? They conquered that country and butchered the Christians living there. The Arabs originate from the Arabian Peninsula, but they subjugated all the peoples of the Middle East and massacred untold thousands in their ethnic cleansing. Regarding Israel, you apparently have never been here. Outside my window right now I see Jews, Arabs and others walking and shopping in this town. While there is discrimination, there is certainly no ethnic cleansing whatsoever.
57 | Shel Zahav, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
Lydia, what side of the Yemen war are you on? Do you support the Iranian proxies, the rebels, who routinely kill civilians in terrorist attacks? Or do you prefer the government that is backed by the Saudi Air Force that is indiscriminately bombing civilian targets where the rebels are holed up? How many claims of "ethnic cleansing" and "human rights abuses" are you going to make with your leftist supporters? The Saudis fund Human Rights Watch. What are the chances that HRW will criticize the Saudi massacres of civilians?
58 | molly-glasgow, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
lydia,tom,chicago and lennox all crave [not a response but a reaction ]and your falling for it.Cut of giving them the oxegen they need and just write your reply to the question,then their commenting to each other but getting no response from intelegent people.You cant reason with an unreasonable person,better ignoring them. Israel is the land of the Jews and the God of Israel is your eye in the sky .He [God took you back to YOUR heritage and deep down these people know it] $ billion or 10 billion against God"" WHO DO YOU THINK WILL WIN?
59 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
I am not going to refer to any particular post. I will just give my take on a certain thread of logic. Imagine you are competing for the heavyweight championship of the world against George Foreman. The bell rings and the first round starts. You throw a punch. Foreman's followers scream You hit him" " Not fair." Imagine a tiny country surrounded by hundred of thousands of hostile troops from country's sworn to your destruction. Instead of waiting to be destroyed you make the no-brainer decision to strike first. Some idiot says you "sucker punched" the hapless Arabs. Proof.
60 | Mke Feldman, Canada, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
Mike Feldman - Cont. Proof. During the war you mistook an American torpedo boat for the Egyptian enemies boat and sunk it in a friendly-fire incident. This is acknowledged by the Americans, but not good enough for a poster who wants this as proof of Israel's aggression. A reasonable person might ask "Why in the hell would Israel destroy an American ship/" Don't ask just accept the blog. The only truth is that the Arab aggression did in fact create a cause celebre. However why take responsiblity for it, when you can perpetuate the conflict by making demands you know will never be met.
61 | Duncan Lennox, Canada, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
To#58 Molly-glasgow.
Molly please join the 21st century. There is no Divine Right to Pal`n. Even Israeli archaeologists agree that the Torah is a fairy tale. Eg Finkelstein & Silberman
"In the text, you have the story of the Israelites coming from outside, & then besieging the Canaanite cities, destroying them & then becoming a nation in the land of Canaan, whereas arch`gy tells us something which is the opposite. According to arch`gy, the rise of early Israel is an outcome of the collapse of C`nite society, not the reason for that collapse."
Ergo no covenant or promised land just Zionism
62 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
Two dissenting, discredited Israels, one of whom has renounced his earlier statements and presto., no covenant. Forget about the Bible, you.'ve got Finkelsten. Gottal love your side. Its so smooth. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, ergo bullshit.Talk about a suck and blow. Find one person who supports your view, deny what happened three thousand years ago, and tell a lady she's not living in the 21st century. Denial and hatred must be great aphrodisiacs to the ignorant and jealous.
63 | lydia, Friday Aug 28, 2009
59 That's just it the bell didn't ring and if you throw a punch before the bell rang then that a foul and Foreman's 'mob' has justification and you lose not the round but the match. Just like you lose in your preemptive 6day preemptive war and have to return the stolen land.
64 | lydia, Friday Aug 28, 2009
60.62 The attack on the Liberty was NO accident. The ship had been there for weeks and its location was known. The Egyptians were to cop the blame but the Liberty managed to limp to safety. Now didn't hasbara 202 tell you not to use the Bible anymore to justify your land theft, 'chosen ones' and 'covenant' arguments because 'we aren't all Arabs' and it won't wash anymore. The covenant you claim to have made with your God is yet to be sighted, so isn't a legal document. The Int. Court however has a more recent and valid agreement, inked and witnessed, so guess who is sucking and blowing now?
65 | , Friday Aug 28, 2009
MIKE...what does it all tell you..these punch drunk freaks you refer to...come back each day for more
and more punishment...albeit...battered and bruised !! ..Talk about SUCKERS for PUNISHMENT..Oi Vey!
...yep...Oi Vey..
66 | GOLDEN NUGGET Australia, Friday Aug 28, 2009
MIKE...what does it all tell you..these punch drunk freaks you refer to...come back each day for more
and more punishment...albeit...battered and bruised !! ..Talk about SUCKERS for PUNISHMENT..Oi Vey!
...yep...Oi Vey..
67 | GOLDEN NUGGET Australia, Friday Aug 28, 2009
MIKE...what does it all tell you..these punch drunk freaks you refer to...come back each day for more
and more punishment...albeit...battered and bruised !! ..Talk about SUCKERS for PUNISHMENT..Oi Vey!
...yep...Oi Vey..
68 | GOLDEN NUGGET Australia, Friday Aug 28, 2009
MIKE....talk about not hearing the bell. ring !! ...what do you expect....those posters are not only BLIND and DUMB but also "DEAF". One of these battered and bruised posters is a professional when it comes to individually "sucking" and "blowing"....yep....does a good professional job...
69 | lydia, Friday Aug 28, 2009
65-67 Have you been to the Vet to get your wee little problem sorted as yet. One of the side effect I am told is a high pitched voice differentiation, but Mate, you must admit that's a wee price to pay to hinder you being a nuisance to everyone else.
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