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Friday Oct 30, 2009
Rosner's Domain: Is Ivanka Trump good for the Jews?Posted by SHMUEL ROSNER
Comments: 45      Follow Rosner's Domain on Twitter! / Join me on Facebook! Is Ivanka Trump good for the Jews? Sorry, I just couldn't resist this headline. The article itself (by Sylvia Barack Fishman) isn't as giddy: But there is another view of what constitutes ethnic identity. This view emphasizes ethnicitys distinctive content - including language, values, behavior and culture - rather than the porous and shifting boundaries between ethnic groups. This tends to be how younger American Jews understand identity. In a marked change from the past, they embrace the particulars of Jewish culture but reject the "us and them" worldview of their elders. Jews in their 20s say they feel a strong attachment to Jewish ethnicity but tend to see Jewish music, food, books, comedy and cultural performance, family styles and religious rituals as their primary ethnic expressions. Unsurprisingly, this latter view of ethnicity tends to be more hospitable to Jews-by-choice. ...Today in America, identifying with Jewishness is voluntary for Jews-by-descent as well as Jews-by-choice. The spiritual journeys of Jewishly passionate converts, supported by ongoing education, expressed through an embrace of a shared culture and a commitment to a redefined concept of peoplehood, may provide models for Jews of all backgrounds. Just as Jews-by-choice like Ivanka Trump have confronted Jewish existential questions, Jews of all shades must struggle with the meanings that can bind them to each other and to Jewish destiny. Bottom line? - "how we can preserve a sense of Jewish peoplehood when traditional
boundaries that had long defined ethnic Jewishness are becoming
permeable and blurry?" Good question, no answer. Ivanka is already helping the Jews asking interesting questions.
1 | StraightTalk, Friday Oct 30, 2009
Is Ivanka good for the Jews? Yes!
2 | Ronald USA, Friday Oct 30, 2009
I have heard Ivanka Trump discuss some weighty issues (not Jewish) and came away very impressed with her intelligence and maturity. I don't think the important question is whether or not she is good for Jews. I wish her, and her family well in her choice.
3 | Boaz, Friday Oct 30, 2009
My question is: who the hell is Ivanka Trump
4 | Laurence D.C., Friday Oct 30, 2009
Why not? She certainly carries Herself well, speaks well, is super intelligent, and is an asset to anything She's involved in. One thing is for sure. Ivanka will be a better Jewess than millions of others and Thier kids will have a real Jewish (Torah True) education and homelife.
5 | Proud Jew, Friday Oct 30, 2009
This is why American Jewry is disappearing...because they value the supposed "choice" more than being a Jew. It doesn't matter though since most of them are gentiles ("patrilineal jews")...
6 | Tzvi/amerikkka, Friday Oct 30, 2009
#3
I know who Ivanka trump is but who the hell is Sylvia barak Fishman?
7 | Adina Kutnicki, Friday Oct 30, 2009
The question itself,is Ivanka good for the Jews is strange. It is as if we need a rich, attractive non Jewish girl, who marries into a high profile Jewish family, to give us all a kosher stamp of approval.The fact of the matter is that Jared Kusher has his own juice, being the heir of the Kushner real estate fortune, despite daddy having spent time in jail for sordid family dealings.Regardless, Kushner had a long list of Jewish ladies to choose from, either way his family is scrutinized.Ivanka appears to be a highly articulate & respectable young woman.BTW, Jared went to Frisch with my son.
8 | Fred, Friday Oct 30, 2009
She needs to be good for one Jew only.
9 | Gnarlodious, Friday Oct 30, 2009
Jews need to stop being so exclusive and widen the circle. Many marginal Jews are disgusted at the elitism of Jews who call themselves "the only REAL Jews" while excluding some other group. If a Jew is religious, or purely a Jew, or speaks hebrew that is all good. But PLEASE accept a wider community, it will be good for the Jews and good for Israel.
10 | Yacov Yosifovitch NYc :O' The DONALD & the iVANNA!, Friday Oct 30, 2009
Step aside; Please let the newly married "Jewish Princes & Prince" Dance in the Light of LOVE & LiFE; Together Forever w/SOURCE-ONE! Mazeltove! Mazeltove, Mazeltove..... Hugggggggssss-n-Kisssssss's. Eeeeeee Haaa!
PEACE, PAZ, SHOLOM, SALAAM, MiR, FREUDEN, SHANTITH, ZHINGGYU, AHIMSA...
PS: i [WE] Grew-Up with TThe TRUMP's in good ole "C-O-N-E-Y---I-S-L-A-N-D"---N.Y. discovered by Henry HUDSON [pbu Him et al]! G-D Bless the Scotts! Ooooppss, The Dutch!
11 | , Friday Oct 30, 2009
12 | Zvi & Stephanie, Friday Oct 30, 2009
She and her chatan are remarkable people>>>>we wish them every good thing, every happiness, and hope that they always remember that when they encounter disappointments/problems that are inevitable in life that with HaShem's help there is a way over those disappointments/problems; we hope they find it easily and in a way that strengthens them and their family>>>> Mazal Tov to them and to us, all Israel, as they build a Bayit Neeman b'Yisrael>>>>
13 | Yudi F usa, Friday Oct 30, 2009
Mr Rosner,I enjoy your columns very much..But Ivanka Trump?I have nothing against her and if she chose Judaism, thats fine. Maybe her father,(or is it her ex husband) Donald, will make a huge contribution to the JUF. Maybe Donald Trump can get at J street="YOU'RE FIRED"! Our "people hood"question during this "pogrom mentality" of much of the world (and UN) has to be discussed by more learned persons that Ivanka Trump. Ronald #2 is right.."the important question is NOT whether she is good for the Jews".What's good for the Jews is a 4000 year old enigma.I think we know whats bad=Jew Haters!
14 | CARES1996, Friday Oct 30, 2009
IT WOULD APPEAR BY ENGAGING WITH THE JEWS SHE IS TRYING TO IN SOME FASHION HELP.IF YOUR OPEN AND SMART THIS WILL BE A GOOD THING IF YOUR CLOSED MINDED AND SELFISH YOU`LL PROBABLY NOT WANT HER ASSISTANCE,THIS IN MY HUMBLE OPINION WOULD BE FOLLY,THE LADY IS THE OPITIMY OF CAPITALISM,SHE`S HONORABLE AND WILLING TO HELP,IF YOU ALLOW ANY TO REDIRECT YOUR THINKING CHECK YOUR FACTS BEFORE YOU ACT.THE LADY AND ISRAEL DESERVE THE DUE DILIGENCE BEFORE RENDERING ANY CONCLUSIONS,ISRAEL NEEDS TO WELCOME FREINDLY`S .SHE IS A FREINDLY TRYING TO HELP. GIVE IT A CHANCE,YOU DON`T HAVE TO BE JEWISH TO HELP JEWS
15 | Wolfgang without gang = Wolf Ich bin Berliner, Saturday Oct 31, 2009
I prefer her mother Ivana, still a nice piece of strudel with or without cream.
16 | Wolfgang without gang = Wolf Ich bin Berliner, Saturday Oct 31, 2009
I prefer her mother Ivana, still a nice piece of strudel with or without cream.
17 | Steve, Saturday Oct 31, 2009
Is it true, as I have heard, that Donald Trump is really Donald Trumpeldor, but that his name was changed a generation or two ago by his father or grandfather? Or is that just an urban legend or another fantasy? Does anyone know?
18 | Steve, Saturday Oct 31, 2009
Is it true, as I have heard, that Donald Trump is really Donald Trumpeldor, but that his name was changed a generation or two ago by his father or grandfather? Or is that just an urban legend or another fantasy? Does anyone know?
19 | SARAH NEW YORK, Saturday Oct 31, 2009
yes it is VERY VERY Good to get rid of the "US" and "THEM" attitude that many Jewish people have.
WE ARE ALL HUMAN SOULS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and the TORAH was given to the children of Israel for the purpose of tikkun (bringing the human soul back to the place where it can commune with the CREATOR like ADAM could.) All Jewish people need to keep the mitzvot and do what the Torah commands so that they can HEAR (SHEMA) from Heaven on how to HELP THE REST OF HUMANITY!!!
20 | Tzvi/amerikkka, Saturday Oct 31, 2009
should all goyiim in israel be 'resettled' to arab countries? or should Jewish communities continued to be destroyed while the zionist garbage that run israel continue to breed arabs?
If we must say kaddish for the Jewish community in yemin due to zionist know it alls destroying world Jewry I pray the days comes when we will say kadish for israel!
21 | Ben, Saturday Oct 31, 2009
Being a Jew,I`m for Jews by choice.I think it would be useful for Jews to realize the national identity without racial component.This will free some Jews from existancial burden of their birth
22 | , Saturday Oct 31, 2009
so what?...
23 | Gregory, USA, Saturday Oct 31, 2009
So, Ivanka Trump converted to Judism. Good for her and her husband. And notice that her family had no objections against the conversion. But, imagine what would have happened if jared Kushner became a Catholic, say, because he loves his wife. Do you think his family would be equally understanding? How would Jewish opinionmakers react?
24 | Dav Lev, Saturday Oct 31, 2009
To Gregory: We Jews are losing 35,000yr according to some surveys...through assimillation (to a fault-do Japanese or Koreans assimilate?), intermarriage (over 50% in some areas) and indifference or outright conversion (200,000 by estimates). Only the Orthodox are having children suffice to increase their relatively small numbers. True, in Israel, traditional Jews are increasing..but that's Israel. Estimates of people with "Jewish blood" in the US, about 20 to 25m. This includes Jewish male parents married to "shiksas". Hitler gassed anyone "Jewish" (Jew blood). Isn't Trump part Jewish?
25 | Dav Lev, Saturday Oct 31, 2009
To Gregory: we must attempt to convert as many people to Judaism as possible. We can emulate the Mormons, who believe in reincarnation..that after dying people continue to come back in other forms.
We have no such nonsense. We are NOT a pagan people..we have no G-dheads..wse do not pray before icons or statues. We are judged by our deeds, not our faith alone. We have no intermedaries. We are paying for our beliefs. The Muslims have fatwas against us. The Taliban and Al Qaeda want us dead, all of us. Ivanka, can be a role model..by her example. I do my best to spread Judaism
to others.
26 | Gregory, USA, Sunday Nov 01, 2009
To Dav Lev: Do Japanese or Koreans assimilate? Of course. So does everybody else. I know Afro-Americans with Czech names. I have a friend whose father is Italian, mother Polish, and wife Russian-Jewish. If you don't lock people in the ghetto, they will date, fall in love an intermarry. This is how American society has been formed. For this matter this is how other societies have been formed. If Palestinians and Israelis start dating and marrying each other, there will be no excuse for fighting.
27 | Sweet Tooth Vienna, Sunday Nov 01, 2009
I agree with #!5,16 Wolf. I too prefer Ivana but definitey with cream, lots of cream, kosher of course. What a
liebling mit oom papa oom pappa, sorry, oom mama oom mamma.
28 | Sweet Tooth Vienna, Sunday Nov 01, 2009
I agree with #!5,16 Wolf. I too prefer Ivana but definitey with cream, lots of cream, kosher of course. What a
liebling mit oom papa oom pappa, sorry, oom mama oom mamma.
29 | Tonycat/Florida, Sunday Nov 01, 2009
Comeon....people intermarry and convert to the other's religion if it is important to them to do so....like if they love the other and the other is more religious. Otherwise they are just two human beings who are free to choose. The Jewish people are extremely interesting and I know many Christians who do not find it difficult to marry into Jewish families....and visa versa, but we are all in this world to live and love.
30 | roy usa, Sunday Nov 01, 2009
re 13--donad baby give to israel??donald trump is cheap!!. he sent his daughter to choate rosemary hall- possibly the most prestigious prep school in the country where you need top grades and top psat scores to get into and then you gotta pay big bucks every year for tuition--like 40 grand a year for high scool! ..meantime they expect parents to donate money also and from what i hear he didnt give didly sqwat! so dont expect him to give 10 cents to israel or jewish causes like the holocast center, uja etc. just forget it!! and if im wrong which i dont think i am, that wld be great!!
31 | doug usa, Sunday Nov 01, 2009
so what? we ,thanks Got ,live not in Muslim World with big possibility be killed for convertion in christianity or judaism. free choice-is the base of civilization.
32 | roy usa, Sunday Nov 01, 2009
the problem losing jews is within our own system. if a jew marries a shksa, forget it, the rabbis reject you, spouse and kids. conversion helps but you're still treated 2nd class. as the jewish popuation dwindles, which it icontinues to we can only blame the rotten rabbis and jewish high establisment for this rejection. the argument that the jews have survived no matter what for thousands years just may not continue to hold if we continue to cast aside intermarrige jewish couples.The rabbis and jewish community shoud reach out and welcome every new such couple instead of rejection! Idiots
33 | hip hairdresser, New Jersey, Sunday Nov 01, 2009
alright already this Trump guy ain't no trump cardh he's so uncool man he buys his dames.This dude must like his martinis VERY dry you can see that on his sour kisser. No dame will kiss THAT kisser for less than 50 grand and it gotta be cash,no checks and whats with that hairstyle, something out of high finiance "fringe" business benefits ?????
34 | Rick S. Geiger, Sunday Nov 01, 2009
My wife who passed away last year after 30 years of marriage converted to marry me. In those 30 years whe was and still is the best Jew I have ever known. She mentored our children with Jewish values, sent our children to Jewish day school, served the Jewish community, was by far the best wife any man on this earth could have, she served the sick and the needy, worked for Jewish charities, was a role model for the young and old, and was a warm and loving friend to many people. G_d blessed this earth with her presence. So if Ivanka can find a way to embrace Judaism, she will be a blessing
35 | Duncan Lennox , Canada, Sunday Nov 01, 2009
It is ironic that in 600-450 BC when the scribes of the insignificant tribal area of Judah were creating the myths on which Judaism is founded they were busy denying that their brothers in the more advanced/larger state of "Israel/Samaria" were REAL Jews but were tainted by idol worship.Even Israeli archaeologists now agree that there was no Exodus or Joshua invasion; that the porto-Israelites c1200 BC were Canaanites.Ergo No Moses,Covenant or promised land. The REAL Jews are still claiming special status. The world will be a better place as religions are replaced with rationality
36 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Sunday Nov 01, 2009
Ya. I'm all for rationality. Like Duncan interpreting in 2009 who was creating myths in 600 BC. And his now infamous ergos. He finds one discreted, disputed archaeologist and re-writes Jewish history. Although I love the last sentence. I'm waiting for Duncan to parse the Koran and tell 2 billion Muslims that the world will be a better place when they embrace atheism.
37 | Claudia, Tampa, FL USA, Sunday Nov 01, 2009
Duncan's expert is probably the"Naked Archeologist" who capitalizes on any myth or rumor in Israel. Though he mostly likes to discredit Christianity with Ossuaries with fake inscriptions. Or Yassar Arafat, who claimed he was descended from the Canaanites(most be the Egyptian branch!).
As for Ivanka! What a beautiful and intelligent woman, she could be as asset to any one or any place. I hope she finds more happiness than her irritating father and uses her gifts more wisely.
38 | Connoisseur Francais Paris, Monday Nov 02, 2009
I do not agree with 15,16,28. I like my meat young and fresh and kosher and Ivanka is a great fillet mignon.
39 | Connoisseur Francais Paris, Monday Nov 02, 2009
I do not agree with 15,16,28. I like my meat young and fresh and kosher and Ivanka is a great fillet mignon.
40 | michael, california, USA, Monday Nov 02, 2009
To "Wolfgang without gang" (comment #16): Ivana Trump is Czech, not German. German as a language is much closer to English than to Czech. But you knew that, right?
41 | michael, california, USA, Monday Nov 02, 2009
To "Wolfgang without gang" (comment #16): Ivana Trump is Czech, not German. German as a language is much closer to English than to Czech. But you knew that, right?
42 | Anton Loew, New York City, Monday Nov 02, 2009
It is amassing the nonces I read in most the letters. Our sages through prophecy came close to God. All them were non Jews, until the Tora was given to Moses in Sinai. Therefore all Jews are converts. As for Ivanka Trump she converted at the strictest Orthodox manner and is Kosher even in Israel. I was fortunate to attended the same religious services at KJ with her and Jared Kusher. Both are most humble and truly devoted Jews with total love each other. I wish them all the best. The ridicules comments show total lack of understanding the Tora which require us to accept converts as true Jews.
43 | Wolfgang without gang=Wolf, Monday Nov 02, 2009
To michael #41 Ya Ya but se ist goot enough to be German und Czech ist goot enough to bake strudel
If you ave not heard of Czech strudel before you ave now, you Dumpkooph. Strudel or no strudel she
ist mien liebling ya ya ya.
44 | Duncan Lennox ,Canada, Monday Nov 02, 2009
To #37 Claudia, Tampa, FL. The group of Israeli archaeolgists I refer to includes Israel Finkelstein of the Univ Tel Aviv with 35 yrs of Israeli field work. You can google & review his work on his univ web site. Like Darwin his father was in the religion biz (a Rabbi) & he started out expecting to verify the myths of the bible but like Darwin after ~25 yrs of work he found there was no basis for the fairy tales. Like Darwin he is not popular with the orthodox establishment or in the case of I.F. the Zionist elite who use Divine Right to justify ethnic cleansing & the colonization of Pal`n.
45 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Monday Nov 02, 2009
#44. In your response to Claudia you state that Finkelstein "found there was no basis for the fairy tales". Truth is all that Finkelstein attempted to do was re-arrange the dates of biblical events, not deny that they had occurred. He can be quoted as saying his findings "should not erode one's sense of tradition and identity". Moreover, Michael Cooper the editor of the New Oxford Annotated Bible contends that Finkelstein and his colleage move from the hypothetical to the improbable to the absurd. What is the Arab justification that justifies the ethnic cleansing of the Jews? If the word colonization is to be used, it would best describe the Jordanians in the West Bank and Gaza.
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