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Sunday Oct 18, 2009
Rosner's Domain: How many Palestinians live in the West Bank? another roundPosted by SHMUEL ROSNER
Comments: 40      Follow Rosner's Domain on Twitter! / Join me on Facebook! How many Palestinians live in the West Bank? And what does it mean? Last week, I quoted here a Pew paper according to which "there are 4.1 million Muslims in the Palestinian Territories". But Yoram Ettinger still doesn't seem to worry: The current 67 percent Jewish majority west of the Jordan River (without Gaza) could expand to 80 percent by 2035, leveraging the aforementioned Jewish demographic tailwind and the potential aliyah resulting from the global economic meltdown and the rise in anti-Semitism (e.g., a half-million olim during the next 10 years from the former Soviet Union). Of course, the trick is in the numbers. He believes that: Inflated numbers have provided the Palestinians with inflated international foreign aid and inflated water supply by Israel. It has also afflicted Israeli policy-makers and public opinion molders with fatalism and erroneous demographic assumptions, which have impacted Israel's national security policy. We report - you decide.
1 | Moshe, Kfar Sava, Sunday Oct 18, 2009
Yoram Ettinger is correct - the Pew paper is bogus
The sources for Ettinger's position are well-documented and available for public inspection. Of course, his conclusions are not welcome in Israeli leftist circles, because the left relies on the inflated and fraudulent Arab population figures to create demographic panic to support their agenda of surrendering land wherever there are Jewish "settlers". On the other hand, it is well-known and undeniable that the fastest-growing segment of Israel's Jewish population is in the so-called territories. That alone is cause for demographic optimism.
2 | Michael G, Sunday Oct 18, 2009
I am not even sure why Israel negotiates with them. We know what their goal is- the destruction of Israel and jews.. I think its time Israel consider clearing them out of all areas of strategic importance. Israel must now take claim for what is theirs. Even if it means large casualties. Enough is enough. The arab countries never change- dictators, no human rights, death in the streets, blame, little contribution to civilized society, and threats. Its time that their barbaric methods of fighting are returned to them in spades. Bring down Al-Aska.
3 | Adam, Hispin, Sunday Oct 18, 2009
How many "Palestinians" live in the "West Bank"? Zero. There is no "West Bank". Anyone who was born during the Britsh Mandate (1920-1948), Jew or Gentile, was called a Palestinian. So, how many native-born Jews and Gentiles, between the ages of 61 and 89, live in Judea and Samaria? Not enough of them to be a demographic threat to Israel :o)
4 | Daran, UK, Sunday Oct 18, 2009
Not sure about what this optimism is related to, perhaps those who espouse bi national state. Why leave Gaza out if other than to skew the numbers. maybe only 1.5 percent of the area between Jordan and the sea but it contains perhaps 1.3 million more Palestinians. Note Mr. Ettiger leaves aside the Gaza birth rate also because that also doesn't suit his spin. Questions about population size are moot in two states. Other than international agreements about shared resources. So while I welcome every Jewish birth, those who wish to live in Israel should do so behind an agreed boarder with PNA
5 | Maya, Sunday Oct 18, 2009
Thank you for printing Yoram Ettinger's views and statistics instead of just the usual leftist propaganda, this time under Pew's false 'statistics'.
6 | andy-london, Sunday Oct 18, 2009
It doesn't matter how many millions there are of them Israel is full up,and besides with the jews from the soviet countries beginning to be dispersed from their homes there, and the rest of eastern bloc countries, I think israel [which is jewish ] should start putting pressure on the muslim brotherhood in the U.N.to get their own kind [which is muslim] to open up the vast areas in their countries for their pallis brothers.Israel should get cracking with building more houses and taking over the west back TOTALLY.
7 | David USA, Sunday Oct 18, 2009
A few more or a few less - what do these numbe games matter, since either way the numbers are substantial. So either annex the W.Bank and it will be a bi-nationan state - or keep colonizing it and there will be perpetual conflict and eventul paria state status.
8 | Duncan Lennox ; Canada, Sunday Oct 18, 2009
Very few Pal`s live (well) in Palestine or the West Bank. Under the Zionist boot most barely survive. The world is becoming more aware of the 60 years of persecution of the indigenous population of Pal`n by ruthless Zions that believe ethnic cleansing is OK as long as they get a homeland. There is no religious justification for Zionism. Even Israeli archaeologists agree that the proto-Israelites were Canaanites & that there was no Exodus. Ergo no Moses ,Joshua invasion or covenant. So we are left with Zionism`s Might Is Right & the Pal`s are paying for the Holocaust with their lives & land.
9 | M.Ogilvy, Sunday Oct 18, 2009
More to the point: How many (so called) Palestinians live outside the West Bank ?? Some say 3 to 4 million . How many would come into Israel if given a chance ? Probably 12 million.
After all, once you start with a fabrication called "Palestinian" and combine it with Levantine cunning, the possibilities are almost infinite. Which is one more reason for Israel to stop mumbling and make it clear to the arabs,"palestinian" or not, that their future is in Arabia, not in Israel nor in the tiny West Bank.
10 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Sunday Oct 18, 2009
Duncan. Don't you ever get just a little tired of repeating the same lies regardless of the topic?
11 | Sherlock Holmes London, Monday Oct 19, 2009
My dear Duncan. Some of us are old enough to remember the time before the first intifada. The Pals were integrated into the Israeli economy and had the highest standards of health and education of any Arab population. The UN 1947 partition plan called for an economic union between Jews and Arabs in Palestine and it looked like almost happening. Ehud Barak offered Arafat about 98% of what he wanted, but the 'freedom fighter' couldn't become the statesman and called an intifada instead. The rest you probably know about.
12 | Bloodyscot Dallas, Texas, Monday Oct 19, 2009
It really doesn't matter in 2yrs there will be a state of Palestine.
The EU is already working on a plan to declare Palestine a state if no deal can be reach in 2yrs and Obama wants a 2 state solution done before he leaves office.
Obama already the EU, Russia, China and many Muslim countries on board for this but he wanted 2yrs to try to work out a peace deal first.
Obama is a law professor who seem to like doing backroom deals and set politcal traps.
Obama drop the settlement freeze to get Israel not to bomb Iran without US,Russia ok.
13 | Mark G, Monday Oct 19, 2009
Why this really matter all this numbers. This people have very unfortunate grim future because people care about them only as long they causing harm to Israelis. If not this purpose of theirs no one even remember them even all this UNs and Human rights rubbish. Palestinians and hamas have most important live line replenished anti-Semitism in the world the only reason why hamas exist and there is no peace. Other vice just another Darfur.
14 | Mark G US, Monday Oct 19, 2009
Why this really matter all this numbers. This people have very unfortunate grim future because people care about them only as long they causing harm to Israelis. If not this purpose of theirs no one even remember them even all this UNs and Human rights rubbish. Palestinians and hamas have most important live line replenished anti-Semitism in the world the only reason why hamas exist and there is no peace. Other vice just another Darfur.
15 | Scott Benlevi occupied Native America, Monday Oct 19, 2009
No 'Palestinians' live in the area known as the disputed territories. Those arab moslems are all the descendants of egyptian,jordanian,syrian,and lebanese squatters who arrived in recent times. Like the european christian who stole Native American by genocidal butchery and deceit, the so-called palestinian will do the same to any Jew who attempts to reside in historical Jewish lands. That's why these islamites need to be permanently exiled to the moslem countries. If Jews from moslem lands cannot return to their homes and lives, why should the treacherous moslem be allowed to infest Israel?
16 | andy-london, Monday Oct 19, 2009
#8 if the jews who were driven out of their homes in arab lands and had their properties stolen from them, managed without a penny to help them from america,britain or europe ,surely with the BILLIONS that's been pouring in from these western nations given to the pallis should have made them a VERY well of people.It's time for their whinging to stop and turn on their so called leaders to give them the resources that they stole from them by buying homes abroad and millions in weapons and rockets to kill Israelis.Nobody believes you lot any more.
17 | Jonah in Jamaica, Monday Oct 19, 2009
Duncan: Do you mean like ethnic cleansing in Gaza which Israel voluntarily left? Or do you mean like within the Green Line pre-1967 borders where the Arab population is increasing faster than the Jewish rate of growth? Or do you mean like in Jerusalem where there are about 100,000 more Arabs than there were before the 1967 Six Day War? etc., etc. You are one sick liar who thinks that words like ethnic cleansing makes your argument for you. What it does is relieve you of having to worry about credability - you have none.
18 | Ben Tzur Melbourne, Monday Oct 19, 2009
#8 is dead wrong, as usual. The West Bank is enjoying an economic boom at present, due to several reasons. 1: Its leadership has now had to crack down on terrorist groups and its formerly unrestrained criminal gangs simply to maintain its own rule, allowing more normal economic life to spring up. 2: Netanyahu explicitly has encouraged more development and business links, and reduced check-points. See http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1253627540911&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
19 | Ben Tzur Melbourne, Monday Oct 19, 2009
Ettinger is not the only demographic expert to refute Palestinian population claims. Most seem to agree on this, since the facts allow for no other interpretation. Rosner knows this: Jonathan Schanzer stated something similar, and gave a key further reference, in a Rosner interview back in Dec. 2008: see http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/rosner/entry/jonathan_schanzer_answer_questions_about
Also see the very thorough and detailed 94-page pdf-formatted study by Seid, Wise & Zimmerman, "The Million Person Gap," Policy Study No. 65, at http://www.biu.ac.il/Besa/mideast.html
20 | Oracle of Hollywood, Monday Oct 19, 2009
The conflict is the fault of State Department intelligence, and the fault of anti-semiitc CIA double agents. Both the Israeli and Palestinian populations have been essentially enslaved to the fascistic anti-libertarian whims of CIA, SDI, etc for decades now. In particular, everybody's common enemy are Bush Senior's agents that have violated the civil liberties and rights of BOTH Israelis and Palestinians of ALL people, when Bush Senior's agents injected VeriChip type of 'cochlear' hypno-paralysis inducing chips into the entire news industry during Bush Senior agents' warrantless searches.
21 | sam in tel aviv, Monday Oct 19, 2009
Question How many Palestinians in the West Bank?
Answer: Two many...
22 | Thomas, Europe, Monday Oct 19, 2009
Facts: Nobody knows how many persons without Israeli ID's are living in Gaza and Judea & Samaria. There is no way of exactly or even approximately determining these numbers. On the other hand, Israeli Statistical Office is keeping exact records on ethnicities holding Israeli citizenship. If these can offer any insight, Jewish birth-rate is growing (because of higher percentage of religious families) and Arab birth-rate is falling fast (thus following the international trend). This doesn't mean situation in Judea & Samaria is same, but the numbers by PA are apparently inflated.
23 | Thomas, Europe, Monday Oct 19, 2009
Facts: Nobody knows how many persons without Israeli ID's are living in Gaza and Judea & Samaria. There is no way of exactly or even approximately determining these numbers. On the other hand, Israeli Statistical Office is keeping exact records on ethnicities holding Israeli citizenship. If these can offer any insight, Jewish birth-rate is growing (because of higher percentage of religious families) and Arab birth-rate is falling fast (thus following the international trend). This doesn't mean situation in Judea & Samaria is same, but the numbers by PA are apparently inflated.
24 | islandiva USA, Monday Oct 19, 2009
I agree with speaker #2 clear out all the arabs out of the Jewish land and leave the jewish take their righful heritage. Obama should be ashamed of himeself,he should go to what he calls home too. We don't need his socialism here.
25 | Jae Lynn, Monday Oct 19, 2009
Correct. A culture that talks out of two sides of its mouth -peace by day to western media, and liberating the land from Jordan to the sea- at night in their mosques...can not be trusted to report accurate numbers of population.
Thats not even mentioning how corrupt, disorganized, and non transparent Hamas/Fatah terror governments are- they couldnt undergo such a project reliably. They barely know how to allocate money, how are they going to galvinize the will to organize a census of such a large scale?
Israel should get hospital records in Judea/samaria and do the math since 1987
26 | Stuart, Michigan USA, Monday Oct 19, 2009
A close Israeli relative asked me last year during the US presidential election campaign whether I would make aliyah if Obama were elected. I said I thought the idea preposterous given the then suicidal leadership of Israel by Olmert.
With US policy blunders harmful to peace, decimation of the US economy by wild spending, a runaway train to US socialized medicine, insane taxes proposed for all US consumers to somehow stanch global climate change, the question now seems prescient. The US and Israel systems are fast becoming indistinguishable.
Judea and Samaria may well see an influx.
27 | Gnarlodious, Santa Fe, Monday Oct 19, 2009
The smart move would have been to accept Israeli citizenship, participate in the democratic system and take down Israel through parliamentary representation. Whew! Looks like Israel dodged a bullet!
28 | r cummimgs London, Monday Oct 19, 2009
Most independent observers place the Jewish population about 200,000 larger than the Arab population between the Jordan and Med, with a higher Palestinian birth rate compensated for by the number of Jews performing aliyah. It is pretty academic though, and the real issues are as always lost in the racial tit-for-tat. One is that there is not enough water to support the existing 11 million people, let alone a continuing increase by births and immigration. There are no easy mechanical answers. Two is that the Palestinians aren't going anywhere, the WB remains their land under international law.
29 | Colin Beck, Surrey, B.C., Canada, Monday Oct 19, 2009
HAVE JEWS HAVE BEEN DHIMMI TOAD? How many of wizard's toadies live in the region? If Hamas Toad, a demonic spirit, can have Israel build him a great wall throughout the land just so he has something to climb when he's under pressure just think what the dragon, the false prophet and the beast can do. During the 1980's the Jews abandoned the asylums to try their luck in technology and lost their frog - catching capabilities. Once you've been thrown out of the ring it's a lot harder to get back in. Once Hitler kicked Britain off the European continent it took a few years for them to get back in.
30 | Bloodyscot Dallas, Texas, Monday Oct 19, 2009
What Israeli wants and what is can realistically can achive may not be the same. While the numbers of Palestinians are in question depending on who and how you count them but the total number of Muslims in the world is about 1.57B with total Jews at about 13.5M. Jordan is now 65% ex-Palestinan and S. Lebonan is controlled by ex-Palestinans, while not all but many want to return to the land of their grandparents, for them and some of their children they will dream of returning some day.
Even if the Palestinian are removed they will not go far and will wait.
31 | moron galut, Monday Oct 19, 2009
certainly the war is one of natality--certainly the Land of Israel is 'occupied' by arabs and not the other way around--pessimists in israel want to accept arab numbers..it makes them 'right'
i
32 | The other Bob - USA, Monday Oct 19, 2009
Duncan Lummox. The Arabs of Samaria, Judea, & Gaza were doing well. They sold produce locally & to Israelis. Jobs were plentiful locally & in Israel. Joint Arab/Israeli ventures were bringing businesses & mfg to the area. There was even some tourism and a very successful casino in Jericho. Their PCI was going up every year. Then, the intifada & suicide bombers. They're reaping what they have sown. Name the Israeli archeologists who say the Exodus never happened. Zionism has BOTH religious AND historical justifications. You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground. You never have.
33 | Leonard Eisenstein,, Monday Oct 19, 2009
With what is going on with the Goldstone debacle there will be no "Peace Process" for another 60 years. It is all the leftist that have no self respect ( probably they do not know the meaning of the phrase) and make claims that they make up in their cushy living room chairs that conditions of no peace in Israel is unberable. Nothing is further from the truth. If JStreet would get off its ass they would find things going very well in Israel. They can live with the no peace occasional War very well.
They have prospered very well under these conditions.You arm chair startagists know nothing .
34 | Jae Lynn, Tuesday Oct 20, 2009
The styronger Israel becomes the weaker the will of so called palestinians who referred to themsleves as such only since the re-birth of the ancient state of Israel.
Pals will wait according to Israels strength in her goals; as Israel prospers Pals will give up over time. And vice versa
If one animal appears weak the other will attack and wait around to do so at the right time. However if the animal is strong the other animal will back off and move on.
35 | Chaim - Israel, Tuesday Oct 20, 2009
There are no "Palestinians" living in Judea, Samaria, Gaza or anywhere else. There never was a "Palestine" or "Palestinians". It would be just as accurate to speak of the number of Neverlanders, Ozzites, Atlantisians or purported residents of any other fictional state. However, the number of Arabs living in Judea, Samaria and Gaza is FAR smaller than 4 million and likely far smaller than even 2.6 million. Ask yourself this simple question. If the ten biggest Arab cities in Judea and Samaria have a combined population of about 400,000. Where are the other supposed "millions" living?
36 | Leonard Eisenstein,, Tuesday Oct 20, 2009
With what is going on with the Goldstone debacle there will be no "Peace Process" for another 60 years. It is all the leftist that have no self respect ( probably they do not know the meaning of the phrase) and make claims that they make up in their cushy living room chairs that conditions of no peace in Israel is unberable. Nothing is further from the truth. If JStreet would get off its ass they would find things going very well in Israel. They can live with the no peace occasional War very well.
They have prospered very well under these conditions.You arm chair startagists know nothing .
37 | Aharon, Los Angeles, Friday Oct 23, 2009
Let's say for the sake of argument that Ettinger is correct what are the options? If not a 2 state solution, then what? Perpetual occupation? Annexation of the territories and all the inhabitants, and granting the Arabs living there full, citizenship rights? Anything less than full citizenship is apartheid. "Transfer" is ethnic cleansing. Both of these are grossly immoral and unjust.
38 | arabist scholar, Sunday Oct 25, 2009
There are no "palestinians" in the West Bank only a cocktail of muslims from around he world congregated
to trick the rest of the world to legitimise their presence as "palestinians".
39 | arabist scholar, Sunday Oct 25, 2009
There are no "palestinians" in the West Bank only a cocktail of muslims from around he world congregated
to trick the rest of the world to legitimise their presence as "palestinians".
40 | Centre Front, Seattle, WA, Saturday Nov 21, 2009
In order to be non-biased one must always analyze the situation from the opposite perspective, to determine what is fair and equitable. Based on a universal moral right that supersedes religious or ethnic prejudices. If you say that Palestine never exists, you are wrong. Look at the maps and history books. If you say Palestinians do not exist, they are just a cocktail of Muslims; then logically the same can be said for Israelis. Israel is a created state of foreign immigrant Jews and descendants of Jews, a cocktail of Jews from around the world. The fact is that Palestinians are displaced.
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