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Sunday Oct 25, 2009
Rosner's Domain: Goldberg's interview with Ben-AmiPosted by SHMUEL ROSNER
Comments: 37      Follow Rosner's Domain on Twitter! / Join me on Facebook! Jeffrey Goldberg had interviewed J Street's Jeremy Ben-Ami - and whatever one might think about this organization and its goals, this interview is quite interesting - starting with the fact that Ben-Ami, finally, renounce the Walt-Mearsheimer thesis (Ben-Ami refuses to admit it is a "renouncement"). Other points of interest: Their discussion of intermarriage (Ben-Ami says he was misquoted in the NYT article). Ben-Ami on Michael Oren's refusal to attend: I think you have to find ways and language and places to speak with not only your enemies but just those who disagree with you. So I don't even know that it's just about us - it's kind of the character of the entire foreign policy of the government at the moment. Ben-Ami on the question "is J Street a Zionist organization" (he doesn't say "yes"): Well, we are unabashedly for a Jewish home in the land of Israel, that there should be a Jewish home that is a democracy, that has a Jewish character and a Jewish flavor and where the law of return is a fact... I think that the notion is that there should be a homeland that is a Jewish homeland. That is the founding principle of J Street. The question is, how do we preserve it? That's where we seem to be getting attacked. Our view is that in order to preserve this, there just simply has to be an independent state for the Palestinians next door, and that's where they will live. And we live in Israel and we live there and there's always going to be a minority in Israel that is not Jewish and we need to treat them like equal citizens and value their participation in our democracy, but it is a Jewish home. This is the Jewish homeland. And here's one last paragraph (to read the much longer interview click here): JG: You believe that you're at the center of American Jewish thought?JB: I believe that we are at the center. The Marty Peretzes and the Michael Goldfarbs and the Lenny Ben-Davids are on the right, to the far right, and there are people to our left, and we are in the middle trying to put forward a thoughtful, moderate, mainstream point of view about how to save Israel as a Jewish home.
1 | Chris USA, Sunday Oct 25, 2009
"... I think that the notion is that there should be a homeland that is a Jewish homeland. " apparently he doesn't have a jewish consensus of opinion because the organization is not monolithic. (i.e. he hopes the arabs who support J Street also want this as well!) Eventually they will accept this reality but not until we create the bridge.
2 | Terry - Eilat, Israel, Sunday Oct 25, 2009
Jonah G. in Jamaica. With great pleasure, I marked the dates on my calendar. See you soon.
3 | Terry - Eilat, Israel, Sunday Oct 25, 2009
Disingenuous & evasive, very much damage control. If Mr Ben-Ami had been hooked up to a lie detector, it would have exploded from over-load. The J-Street strategy is to suck in liberals who are fooled by the nice rhetoric but J-Street is in no way center, it is radical far-left. As I said before, they're looking for ''useful idiots'' - their entire agenda is anti-Israel, no matter what he says. In effect, following their agenda would put an end to a Jewish state. The interview sticks to vague innocuous pronouncements of support - what about specific details like Jerusalem or Op. Cast Lead?
4 | Terry - Eilat, Israel, Sunday Oct 25, 2009
Notice that Mr Ben-Ami avoids talking about our right to self-defense, avoids all criticism of the Arabs, places all the burden on Israel, only sees concessions as an Israeli obligation, conveniently ''forgets'' our past experiences (& the total failure of Leftist policies), has nothing to say about the greatest threat to our existence, the Iranian nuclear program - in brief, the real position of J-Street is the exact same position as the Arab position, as for example, in the Saudi initiative. How anyone can call this pro-Israel is beyond me.
5 | Yakov Yosifovitch NYc: ALLAH says KAFFIR stole IT's Patents, Sunday Oct 25, 2009
It seems that there are3- three Worlds, on This Miraculous yet SIN-less beautifull S.pace S.hip called EARTH, aka S.S. GAiA, S.S. GEOID, S.S., S.S. TELLUSng something THATs begot from the our "O.U.R. Holyi-Cosmic [Momma/Poppa] if Ye will] blesseth NEBULA; And in fact, WE [i] art not Alone!! There are the WESTERN thinkers, EASTERN Thinkers and themixed MIDDLE Thinkers. Both the East &West mindeds both agree that NUCLEAR knowledge was discovered in the East. And 'some' (not Islamic) Middle-East-thinkers agree. Yet Today the "AL TAQIYAH"ists ar Jealously teaching kids that EAST, Zion n WEST folks
6 | Shlomo Toren, Sunday Oct 25, 2009
Of course disingenuous. Notice how some people just need to claim the "middle ground" and do so by tar brushing other views as being "extremist". It is a sign of the paucity of your position to justify it by saying it is "middle ground". Or you are right or you are wrong, or at the very least there are different perspectives that need to be heard and analyzed.
J-Street , whether "mainstream" or not for American Jewish opinion, has many anti-Zionists critics among its backers and its perspective is somewhat anti religious, not to say traditional left wing.
7 | Yacov Yosifovitch :Beware Wahabi RELiGIOUS JEALOUSY PSYCHOSs, Sunday Oct 25, 2009
... continued: that WE "Stole their Ideas (of Many that are Modern) and are now going to use their ideas [That ALLAH gave ISLAMICS] against ALLAH!??? The "AL TAQIYAH (around the World; in Secret) deliberately brainwash their kids as if victims of the EAST n WEST n ZIONISTS! They Steal "Walt Disneys "MICKEY-MOUSE" and use character to dipict the ZION n Westerners that they kill/d MUSLIMS/MOSLEMS/MUZZLEMEN/WOMBs Canaanites (now called PALI's) and ARABs? They teach their Kids that AL AQSA is Allah's; and TEMPLE MT. never Existed in JERU even before ISLAM was born!? Yet Jealously aknowledge YASHUA
8 | Yacov Yosifovitch :TURKY is conspiring to Gang-attack ISRAEL, Sunday Oct 25, 2009
... continued [End]. Now suddenly Shia/Sunni loving TURKS are re-building a modern OTTOMAn EMPIRE with the "AL TAQIYAH"ists secret WAHABBi Blessings {for World Domination (Islamic-Zionizm style); as promised them (not US) by ALLAH via Mr. MuHAM-MAD!? "The ISLAMIC SCARE" (not only COMMUNIST) is real!! Prediction: The "KABBA" (ex-IDOL worshipers house) in Mecca and the "AL AQSA" (ex-Solomons Land) will be destroyed, same fate as the Twin-Towers in N.Y.C. and elswhere! FACT: Islamic Pakistan (Vanguard of Islam) had secrtly transfered processed-NUKES to Saudi Arabia to share w/Turkey n Syria!?
9 | Yacov Yosifovitch :TURKY is conspiring to Gang-attack ISRAEL, Sunday Oct 25, 2009
... continued [End]. Now suddenly Shia/Sunni loving TURKS are re-building a modern OTTOMAn EMPIRE with the "AL TAQIYAH"ists secret WAHABBi Blessings {for World Domination (Islamic-Zionizm style); as promised them (not US) by ALLAH via Mr. MuHAM-MAD!? "The ISLAMIC SCARE" (not only COMMUNIST) is real!! Prediction: The "KABBA" (ex-IDOL worshipers house) in Mecca and the "AL AQSA" (ex-Solomons Land) will be destroyed, same fate as the Twin-Towers in N.Y.C. and elswhere! FACT: Islamic Pakistan (Vanguard of Islam) had secrtly transfered processed-NUKES to Saudi Arabia to share w/Turkey n Syria!?
10 | Yakoc Yosifovitch :Include a"RELIGIOUS-POLICE" like INTERPOL, Sunday Oct 25, 2009
ThNew-Hagana shall hav an inseperabe BRANCH/BUREAU/DIVISION called "INTERNATION RELIGIOUS POLICE" who's job will be to [Stealthly] "Listen & SEE" what ANY/ALL so-called licensed or self-proclaimed THEOlogian, Rabbi, Immam, priest, Mullah, Ayatolah, Mufti, THEOcrat (MONarchs No Exception) player(s) are "exciting" (against HUMANITY per se, not NATIONAL). &if thrs ANY "Evidence" brought before a Reciprocating "INTERNATIONAL COURT" [w/Religious Prosecutors therein] &ifound Credible, to "PROSECUTE" such Rhetoric (yes, unjustly for-Talking "HATE" will FACE aInternational-Religious-Court Warrant!
11 | Daniel-Atlanta, Sunday Oct 25, 2009
Modern Zionism seems to be full of contradictions. How can one be a chosen nation and deny God, as the founders of Israel did? Once the state was formed, how could one be a religious Jew with messianic expectations and be an Israeli at the same time? In more recent days, how can the state be a Jewish state and be a democracy at the same time? Of course, I'm using a very broad definition of Zionism. From what I've read, no one can even agree on what Zionism means nowadays.
12 | Yakoc Yosifovitch :NEW-U.N's new "RELIGIOUS-POLICE" INTERPOL, Sunday Oct 25, 2009
ThNew-Hagana shall hav an inseperabe BRANCH/BUREAU/DIVISION called "INTERNATION RELIGIOUS POLICE" who's job will be to [Stealthly] "Listen & SEE" what ANY/ALL so-called licensed or self-proclaimed THEOlogian, Rabbi, Immam, priest, Mullah, Ayatolah, Mufti, THEOcrat (MONarchs No Exception) player(s) are "exciting" (against HUMANITY per se, not NATIONAL). &if thrs ANY "Evidence" brought before a Reciprocating "INTERNATIONAL COURT" [w/Religious Prosecutors therein] &ifound Credible, to "PROSECUTE" such Rhetoric (yes, unjustly for-Talking "HATE" will FACE aInternational-Religious-Court Warrant!
13 | Yakov Yosifovitch :A "NEW HAGGANA" isNeeded toStop WWW3or4, Sunday Oct 25, 2009
In defence ofcold-wars like todays "ISLAMIC-SCARE", [SABRAS] need to establish, not within the MOSSAD, a seperate yet "NEW-HAGANA" (an "EARTH-LAND-SECURITY" Int'l RELIGIO-Bureau) w/Prongs in Every ORGANIZED-RELIGION! ITwill have a web/Paper (7X366) for ALL the world to read & Hear about (what Islamics kids/Youth are sayin from every facit or place of their daily lives, includes OPINIONS) , against NON-JUDEO-abe-JEWS or JUDEO-abe-Christians or against JUDEO-Vedic Hindu, vedic-Buhhists et al. Example: Post what the Average-Young/Elder MUSLIM is hearing in Cafe's,Malls,School,Streets & Mosqes .
14 | Jae US, Sunday Oct 25, 2009
I think....that there should be a notion....of a jewish homeland?
ARE YOU KIDDING ME? ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER than dialogue Jeremy.
You slap Israel for self defense against hamas. You dont complain once about 8000 terror missiles on Israel. You frequently lead condemnation of Israel and you rarely support her or defend her or attack her enemies.
Jeremy et J street, you are is an egotistical outsider who is a mouthpiece for the far left, for the ignorant and for those whose ties to Judaism are looser than than a 3 year old's shoestrings. You dont want sanctions on crazed Islamic Nuclear Iran!
15 | Yacov Yosifovitch :SECULAR'S-R'-TOGETHER-FOREVERw/SOURCE-ONE, Sunday Oct 25, 2009
Letter to SHARON and RABIN [pbu Them]: WE art NATURALLY-SELECTED, not CHOSEN anymore & WE know, in 'Coma' or 'Pergatory' that [Our Father's/Mothr's] can HEAR, not only US SABRA(s), but ALL Lovers of Life/Love And WE, the Automatic Born Ciizenary/Denizenary of S.pace S.hip Earth [HOME/HEAVEN] Promise YOU that ALL/EVERY/ANY JUDEO-abe or JUDEO-vedics, Any-Man-Kind, that PEACE, PAZ,SHALOM,SALAAM, AHIMSA, SHANTITH, ZHINGYU..via good Thoughts/words/deeds (Nation by Nations) will bring Closure' to YE good Intentions, asWE evolve&Re-Evolve on this Blesseth'ROCK' of many as1 in a"BORN-AGAIN-GALAXY"!
16 | Jerry E usa, Sunday Oct 25, 2009
Daniel of Atlanta..who said Zionism is secular? There are very religious Zionist Jews in Israel and all over the world. "Zionism" is only the "law of return" any one who is a Jew can become a citizen. Yes there are secular Zionists..Israel is a free country..one can be as religious as one wants..go to the beach on Sat (Shabbos) and see the people playing and enjoying themselves there. Daniel ..do you know how many Christians there are that don't go to church and are even close to Athiests...but they still call themsleves Christians..and don't forget the Christian Zionists! God bless em!
17 | Daniel-Atlanta, Sunday Oct 25, 2009
Jerry E, many of the early Zionists and founders of the state of Israel (Herzl, Nordau, Ahad Ha-Am, Syrkin, Borochov, Gordon, Fleg, Lewisohn, Brandeis, Kallen, Kaplan, Jabotinsky, Weizmann, Ben Gurion, Meyerson to name a few off the top of my head) were essentially secular. They are the ones I meant by using the word "founders" in my original post. There were some religious figures as well in early Zionism. For the most part, though, the early roots of Zionism were secular, perhaps with a veneer of religiosity here and there.
18 | psk, Monday Oct 26, 2009
Slick and slimy. If this is non the creatio ex nihilo of an uncomfortable grouping, then it must have been created out of something. One wonders what. Imagine if I were to say: "I think the United States of America is a good idea, and I will considerate a sovereign state if and when a, b, c". Does J Street think itself a state unto itself, to recognize or not recognize other states? First we must separate the truly relilgious and all wing parties from Israel, and then maybe it will have a right to exist. I ok the USA so long as the republicans drop dead and the Christians disappear. Cool.
19 | psk, Monday Oct 26, 2009
Slick and slimy. If this is non the creatio ex nihilo of an uncomfortable grouping, then it must have been created out of something. One wonders what. Imagine if I were to say: "I think the United States of America is a good idea, and I will consider it a sovereign state if and when a, b, c". Does J Street think itself a state unto itself, to recognize or not recognize other states? First we must separate the truly religious and all right wing parties from Israel, and then maybe it will have a right to exist. I ok the USA so long as the republicans drop dead and the Christians disappear. Cool
20 | psk, Monday Oct 26, 2009
Slick and slimy. If this is non the creatio ex nihilo of an uncomfortable grouping, then it must have been created out of something. One wonders what. Imagine if I were to say: "I think the United States of America is a good idea, and I will consider it a sovereign state if and when a, b, c". Does J Street think itself a state unto itself, to recognize or not recognize other states? First we must separate the truly religious and all right wing parties from Israel, and then maybe it will have a right to exist. I ok the USA so long as the republicans drop dead and the Christians disappear. Cool
21 | HebrewMan, Monday Oct 26, 2009
Frankly I don't care too much about all this hot air over there, but 1 comment he made is pure hutzpa
"And we live in Israel and we live there and there's always going to be a minority in Israel that is not Jewish and we need to treat them like equal citizens and value their participation in our democracy"
1. He does NOT live here
2. Since he does not live here, it is not his democracy.
Anyone can hold whatever opinion they want, but don't seek to tell us how to run our country from the comfort and distance of your cozy American armchair.
22 | Daran, UK, Monday Oct 26, 2009
Daniel, perhaps that's why no Israeli constitution was agreed to allow these sorts of fuzzy edges and to "muddle" through with Knesset and the courts.
23 | almarc13, USA, Monday Oct 26, 2009
As a one time military analyst, I have a simple military question. Assume that Israel is pushed back to the pre-1967 cease fire line and Jerusalem is forcibly seized once again by the Arabs. These are the very conditions that led to the Arab attacks (blockades, threats, military alliances, massing of troops and aircraft, etc.) that caused the 1967 war. How should Israel defend itself when they are again attacked from all sides by their Arab neighbors? And remember, de Nile is a river in Egypt, not a basis for a rational policy.
24 | Amnon, the Great AMERICAN Southwest, Monday Oct 26, 2009
Ben-Ami should have been asked point-blank about the Soros funding, about the money coming from friends of Hamas and Saudis, why he has chosen to accept that kind of funding. If he said why not, the follow-up should have been: "I guess you'd accept funds from David Duke, Farrakhan and Jeremiah Wright as well, huh, Jer?" Ben-Ami should also have been asked why he loves Bonzo so much when he wants Judea-Samaria Judenrein. Instead we get another boring piece of manure allowing this self-hater to promote his crew.
As said before, Jews for Jesus are better Jews and Zionists than J Street crap.
25 | euwei choi USA, Monday Oct 26, 2009
J STREET is a LEFT-WING CONSTRUCTION of Self-Hating Jews,Anti-Semites and ISLAMISTS that is "Community Organized' into a TOOL to UNDERMINE Israel.
Jeremy Ben-Ami's NAME is a Cruel Joke.
26 | euwei choi USA, Monday Oct 26, 2009
J STREET is a LEFT-WING CONSTRUCTION of Self-Hating Jews,Anti-Semites and ISLAMISTS that is "Community Organized' into a TOOL to UNDERMINE Israel.
Jeremy Ben-Ami's NAME is a Cruel Joke.
27 | joe everywhere, Monday Oct 26, 2009
i suppose you have the monopoly over zionism eh rosner.
as far as i know there are multiple forms and shades of it, not one, even if you want it to be
lay off j-street, your constant attacks are probably doing more to discredit yourself than it does them.
in the last month it seems, and i stress seems, that half of your work is about them.
I am neither a jew or zionist, but i read your opinion on a daily basis and feel it is valulable.
why can't you do the same for those who disagree?
28 | joe everywhere, Monday Oct 26, 2009
i suppose you have the monopoly over zionism eh rosner.
as far as i know there are multiple forms and shades of it, not one, even if you want it to be
lay off j-street, your constant attacks are probably doing more to discredit yourself than it does them.
in the last month it seems, and i stress seems, that half of your work is about them.
I am neither a jew or zionist, but i read your opinion on a daily basis and feel it is valulable.
why can't you do the same for those who disagree?
29 | Amnon, the Great AMERICAN Southwest, Monday Oct 26, 2009
Ben-Ami's daddy was in the Irgun. So what! So was Tzippity Doo-Dah Lifney's and Rahm Emanuel's, and Hanegbi's mommy Geula Cohen was in the collaborating Stern Gang, you remember Geula, she threw the temper tantrum when Carter addressed the Knesset, but didn't say a word when her son betrayed Gush Katif.
Obviously the Irgun and Stern Daddies and Mommies didn't raise their Leftarded sons and daughter right. A spanking or a prefrontal lobotomy would have served these kids right. I've read Ben-Ami's response to Goldberg and he more than revealed his true colors of being a Fascist Pig.
30 | Backstop, Monday Oct 26, 2009
Walt Disney (no slouch as an anti-semite) had a place for J Streeters: Fantasyland. They want to transplant a vision of an America that does not exist (and has never existed) in Israel.
31 | eliyho matzozky new york, Monday Oct 26, 2009
thank g-d we have bloggers and baloons it goes so well toghter ben ami son of izchag who was an active irgun member and professed for the creation of a hebrew nation that became eventually an israeli nation must be probably so fond of his sons centerness and desire for a jewish state what we need is an israeli republic with awritten constitution for the israelis not for americas jews mr ben ami with all due respect is total nonsense as well all the balloons around him we might as well include the bloggers too
32 | Jerry E usa, Monday Oct 26, 2009
Daniel of Atlanta,yes,many of the leaders of the Zionist movment were secular in nature, but I'll bet most of them went to synagogue on Rosh Hoshunah and Yom Kipper! Being Jewish is many things, Religion (the foundation of course), culture, heritage, peoplehood, and 4000 yrs of unbelieveable SURVIVAL! Thank God those pioneers of Zionism got impatient waiting for God to give them back their Homeland, so the organized their own "Return" proposition and named it aptly Zionism! What a great bunch of Guys, but dont count out the religious significance of Israel. Isreal is our Jewish Holy TEMPLE!
33 | Lee in the Golan, Monday Oct 26, 2009
A small inconsistency. The part about there always being a non Jewish minority. Well what happens after we give Judea and Shomron to the "Palestinians" and the non Jewish majority down the road becomes mathematically equal - it could happen, ok maybe not in one or two generations. How can you democratically guarantee a Jewish state? You can't!
34 | Tod Zuckerman , San Francisco, Monday Oct 26, 2009
Man, Ben-Ami is one lucky yordim creep - he has a cushy job, paid for by Soros. All he has to do is help delegitimize Zionism . Notice how similar is language is to Obama's. Lastly, it is a shame the Kadima nitwits support this awful organization - it just shows how so many Israeli leaders have a bad combination of extreme personal ambition and very low intellect.
35 | Gary in USA, Tuesday Oct 27, 2009
Here's an idea: You hate Western critics, even Jewish western critics. Really, you hate America.
Solution: STOP begging and arm-twisting for handouts from the US govt. Shut down AIPAC and JINSA. Stand on your own, without billions of dollars of support from the West. If Israelis get real angry, maybe cancel diplomatic ties with the US and remove your ambassadors.
Why not?
36 | Johnson USA, Tuesday Oct 27, 2009
I always wonder concerning hte Jewish mentality that somehow does not find its own existence as a rationale for pursuing policies and seeking a reality that perpetuates its well-being. Why all this kow-towing to abstract words such as "justice" with quite nebulous and differentiated meanings. We used to have a saying, "Screw 'em all but six and leave them for the pallbearers." Now, it's "Screw 'em all but one and leave him for the urn bearer." Why do you continually suggest a need to and then seek to justify acting in your own self-interest? This need for "justification is perplexing. Why?
37 | Ann Onymous, Tuesday Oct 27, 2009
"Comments are moderated and will not appear on this blog, until they have been reviewed and deemed appropriate for posting." Do you REALLY think half the comments posted here are "appropriate for posting," Rosner? Many don't even relate to anything you've written here.
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