|
Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Rosner's Domain: "Emanuel is not a self-hating Jew"Posted by SHMUEL ROSNER
Comments: 110      Follow Rosner's Domain on Twitter!!! A must-read (but you don't have to agree with every word): Leon Wieseltier's Who Are You Calling A Self-Hating Jew? Here's a paragraph: So I wish to attest -- I have placed my hand on my copy of The Zionist Idea -- that Rahm Emanuel is not a self-hating Jew. I know this. I have never met David Axelrod, but I am aware of no grounds for the suspicion that he has committed "race treason." (I take that charming phrase, which sounds like it was translated from Treitschke, from David Mamet's thuggish book The Wicked Son: Anti-Semitism, Self-Hatred, and the Jews. Mamet is another one of the Most Jewish Jews of All.) Differing with Benjamin Netanyahu does not yet make you a bad Jew. If Emanuel is a self-hating Jew because he believes that Israeli settlement in the West Bank should finally cease, then I, too, am a self-hating Jew. Perhaps you will agree, friends, that this is not very plausible. And one more: So the administration's policy toward Israel is the correct one? Alas, not. It is, in fact, inexplicably obtuse. For the settlements are not what now stand between the peoples and peace. And the continued alienation of the Israelis is also not such a smart idea. Are their fears less real? They may be forgiven for concluding that Barack Obama thinks so. In the matter of empathy for the Israelis, the speech man is peculiarly speechless. Even if the two-state solution is the only solution, it fills Israelis with disquiet, and not only because they have grown accustomed to their Judea and their Samaria. The demographics of Palestine may lead to one conclusion, but the politics of Palestine may lead to another. It is characterized chiefly by chaos and hatred and violence.
1 | Ben Israel - Israel, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Where does the charge of Emanuel and Axelrod being "self-hating"? Both seem to feel that Israel 's elected government is not competant to decide what Israel's interests are and that they, as outsiders are more fit to do so and are willing to use US power to impose policies that they want on Israel. Why do they do this? Is it because they somehow are "smarter" than Israel and want to impose policies on it "for its own good"? The second is that they are embarrassed by Israel and don't want to be identified with it and think support for the Arabs will "clear them". THIS IS SELF-HATRED.
2 | Observer USA, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
"... they have grown accustomed to their Judea and their Samaria." Oh - so that's it then. Perfect reasoning :) Like I have become accustomed to a lavish lifestyle - but I just lost my job, so I will have to adjust to the new reality. Unfortunately, neither the rest of the world nor the Palestinians have become "accustomed " to the occupation of the above areas. So Israel may have to practice becoming unaccustomed to them - the sooner th better.
3 | samg nyc ny, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Touching paragraphs - but totally unbelievable. What (since you avoided the topic and shifted blame to Bibi and "his" policies) is a self hating Jew? The short answer would be someone who works against his own people, no? The "reason for Jews in the world" is NOT "Tikun Olma" thats a falsehood. It's the service of GOD, with the Jews living in THIER own country - Israel. If you work towards the policy of eliminating "settlements" (the current N word) you ARE self hating. Israel/Jerusalem are central to EVREYTHING Jews do - to give it to a people who started 5 wars against you IS self/Jew hating
4 | Michael Greenberg, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
WHY,Rosner do you claiming not to be a self-hating Jew, think that there should be no Jewish settlement in the West Bank (ie. in Pal-land)? because THEY (the arabs,the World,The U.N. ,the U.S.A.) say so? First -why can't THEY agree to at least the same # of Jews there as there are Arabs in "Israel Proper" ? (AIRNESS is beyond your lefty appeasing brain to understand,I guess). Why should Jews appease "legality" imposed by GOYIM?
"Legality" is invented by those in POWER--that changes with the whims of history.
Real Peace is made between enemies -never to merely satisfy some "lawyers"..
5 | Ginsburg, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Rahm Emmanuel may very well have some personal conflicts about his Observance (because he is Shomer Shabbat and attends Shul etc) and his politics which are exteme Left. But the bottom line is he is a Hard Leftist in every sense and that means towing the line by placing emphasis on the non-issue of settlements. Settlements have Never been the reason why there is no peace! Arab society from the dictators to the newly created nationality of the last 70 years, called "Palestinian" do not embrace or even understand democracy, acceptance of others, or western values. What do they create or value ?
6 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Ben Israel. You first conclusion is the correct one. It is consistent with the thinking of American liberals that they know what is best, and it is their duty to impose their vision on the less-enlightened. To borrow a phase: they thnk they have Vision without Borders.
Observer, sorry you lost your job. Hope you find a new one soon, but even if you're permanently unemployed your chances of working again are greater than Israel abandoning Judea and Sumaria.
Guess you should get accustomed to it.
7 | Terry - Eilat, Israel, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
What's the distinction between a looney-leftist & a self-hating Jew? I don't really know. And, truthfully, I don't care about their motivations. Like their J-Street friends or the peace-creeps from Peace Now or the collection of Jewish Israel-bashers in the academic world, all of them are not our friends, they are essentially traitors, worse than outright apostates, a type of individual that has plagued the Jewish people through-out our history.
8 | Dave, Israel, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
I don't think that most Israelis take issue with ceasing settlement activity. I think they take issue with the USA acting as a representative body for the Palestinians. The Palestinians have yet to ammend their political charter that calls for the destruction of Israel. No official Palestinian organization has recognized Israel's government or right to exist as a nation. The Palestinians have not defined "peace". It seems to many Israelis that their definition of peace is "ceasefire until we get the next thing that we want, then open fire again". The US should not endorse this, but is.
9 | Sarah, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
No Emanuel may not be a self-hating Jew he is just an evil one.
10 | john london, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
yes, wanting Jews ethnically cleansed from their historic homeland is traitorious (if you are jewish) and ant-semitic, in particular as you are not advocating that Arabs in Israel should leave.
There are no buts about it. This is not a political question, it is an idealogical question from those who don't want to understand that 90% of non-Jews in Israel came in the 1940s. The Jews are native to the land and always have been. To reject this is to be anti-Jew. Full stop.
11 | steve, tel aviv, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Israel's definiton of settlements and the Arabs' are not the same. Israelis do not consider the entire Jewish State a settlement. This clarification should me made loud and clear.
12 | Ken Singer NYC, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Who knows, or cares, whether Axelrod or Emanuel is a "self-hatng Jew." What we know for certain is much more important: They are ruthlessly ambitious, liberals who are intensely loyal to an anti-Zionist Arabist gentile who happens to be President of The United States.
13 | Shalom, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
rant a debate. They should shame themselves!
14 | PIL London, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Quick question. Is a Jew who walks out of a synagogue when they hear the Tikvah a self hating Jew?
15 | David W. Lincoln, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Israel does not need another neighbour which does not respect property rights for all, not just some.
The drivel that comes from the usual suspects causes my eyes to roll, because they do not pay the slightest attention to what makes a successful state, a successful state, and what makes a failed state a failed state.
Furthermore, those who point out their flaws are referred to as narrow-minded.
We have paid, we are paying, and everyone will pay for such provincialism.
16 | Zev-Rehovot, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
"self-hating Jew" is an oxymoron. Nobody hates himself. I would
replace the title with "Jew hating Jew". This is much more precise.
17 | psk, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
In a chess game, a good player knows how to tell a bluff from real threat. And at the end, there are usually not arguments about who won (between players who know the rules). They might each think they are winning (or losing) at the same time, and be right or wrong. In Ithis Game (the "Conflict"), each side seems to have very different ideaa not just about the position on the board but about the rules of the game and its principal objective. If I say "check" and my opponent decapitates me, he shows he doesn't know the rules of the game. But then, why am I playing with this guy?
18 | Edward S USA, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
I dont think Emanuel or Axelrod or self hating Jews...no way. However, they know that Israle is the only one that can make peace! To them, negociating with Hamas and their hateful ilk is impossible...so of course talk to the people (Israeli Govt) that truley wants peace! That the real problem ...trying to have an agreement with a crocodile mentality who hates Israel's guts is impossible. Thats where Emanuel and Axelrod are wrong. Self hating Jews ..NO! They just dont understand the fact that as long as Jews control Jerusalem, it invalidates all of Islam!
19 | moron galut, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
self-hating or not these court jews help strengthen israel's enemies--their religion is greed and liberalism[covet of power and other people's money]--like roosevelt's jews...useless!
20 | Lowell Blackman, Ramat Ilan, Israel, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
I don't think it is so much a matter of Jewish self-loathing as much as it is contempt for Israel as the son of what Yitzhak Rabin called "yordim" - emigrants from Israel, or in Hebrew, "those who go down". That many "yordim" look down at Israel is well known and I have met many in New York. They consider themselves as part of the elite, the smart ones who left for political reasons, to make more money, or because Israel was considered too primitive for their own tastes - a third world nation with far too many backward Jews from "eastern" lands. Ken Singer, #12, bravo.
21 | cares1996, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Come on guys,use your brains,what good will come from unconstructive criticism,find something that you can see eye to eye on and focus on that,there has to something.Like it or Not they currently hold high positions,improvise please,everyone has chips in the pile, having a good poker face and maybe even doubling down may bring a victory from the jaws of ---- .however I`d suggest expiditious implementation of all availible resources in this matter,the stakes are huge,and there`s no room for procrastination,and you have a stronger hand then ya think.
22 | Sally - U.S.A., Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Martin Peretz of the New Republic is opposed to how Obama is treating Israel & opposed as to how Obama is dealing with Human Rights. If Leon Wieseltier still supports Obama, he does not say, but the man came out & said that he supported voting for Obama just because he is African American. If someone cannot vote for someone on the issues, in my opinion, that does not say much.
23 | denniis snapper, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
the best thing for us to do is to immediately start building in judea and samaria and keep on building until jews can move there en mass/ first of all you will get affordable housing, secondly we will eventually claim our land and if the arabs want some work they can apply for jobs. this way almost everybody is a happy camper israel will live just a jew lover...
24 | daat y, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Singer at no.12 said it all!
25 | s, chicago, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
i think bibi and lieberman and all those who support them are self hating jews because their policies will ultimately lead to israel becoming a pariah state. Too much greed leads to self-destruction.
26 | Mike Feldman < Canada, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
I'm waiting to hear from a Muslim-hating liberal Muslim. As Terry once said "May (you) I live to be 120."
27 | Shel Zahav, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
I dont know if Emanuel is a self-hating Jew or not. But I know that he is an asshole.
28 | gordon sydney, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Where do you live Rosner? Wherever it is, Rahm Emanuel has decided that all houses in your area will be demolished and you will have to move.
OK ?
29 | JMK, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Self hating not because of a particular policy difference but because the particular policy difference is made into part of a serial white elephants that israel must cross. Right of Return, compensation, roadblocks, settlements, dismantlement, armification, airspace rights, naval rights, landbridges, water rights, Jerusalem, holy sights, just an off hand list of the never ending demands of the Arabs to Israelis all US backed and enforced.The end result of which Arab sovereignty of an additional piece of land will lead to a war of an existential nature with a progressively emasculated Israel.
30 | s, chicago, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
"I think they take issue with the USA acting as a representative body for the Palestinians. "
Are you joking? The US has done nothing but look the other side while you people were robbing the native people of everything they had.
By the way, the americans also take issue with the fact that our government is controlled by an israeli lobby and we don't think it's funny that we spend 3 billion dollar/year on maintaining an israeli occupation. I would say the american has more right to say something to you than vice versa. And still they don't.
31 | Shirley, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
It's Jews like him that make honorable Jews ashamed that one of their own could sink so low.
32 | flower, USA, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
Sorry but I am with those who think that Emanuel IS self hating Jew.
Only this kind of Jew will advice a naive and boorish president to force Israel to evacuate settlements with all the pain this will cause many thousands people.Only this kind of Jew will not tell the pathetic Obama that a million and a quarter Arabs live in Israel why shouldn't three hundred thousand Jews live in the West bank?
Why is Emanuel not telling the childish Obama that falling hrad on Israel while tiptowing around the Arabs will never bring peace?
Emanuel is not a good Jew nor a smart one.
33 | Ed NYC, Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
In the case of Axelrod and Emanuel, if they're self-hating Jews it's entirely justified.
34 | Ronald USA, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
I think Weiseltier's article is self-contradictory and written in a confused way. He starts out saying Emanuel and Axelrod (who he doesn't know) are not self-hating, then proceeds to say Obama's early quarrel with Netanyahu over the settlements freeze was unwise and alienated Israelis. Couldn't everyone see the clash between Obama and Netanyahu coming a mile away? I don't think that proves anything about Emanuel or self-hating Jews. Furthermore, I resent Weiseltier's attack on David Mamet. I read "The Wicked Son' and would recommend it to everyone.
35 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
One man's pariah is another man's hero. Just like one man's murdering terrorist is another man's freddom fighter. All in the eyes of the beholder.
36 | B.A., the Netherlands, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
Rahm is a smart guy. He is clearing the way to run for the highest office in 2012. Is there a better way to do that than to start proving as early as possible that he is not an Elder of Zion (whatever that means). The worst "enemies" of Isreal are not non-Jews, but some Jews I (and I am not Jewish) simply cannot understand - the likes of "breaking the silence".
37 | No Lies, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
Of course Rahm and Axelrod are self-hating Jews. They are working with a President that is anti-Israel and pro-Arab, and let's not forget is close friends with the former American spokesperson for the Plo. Both men also married non-Jewish women and have Gentile children. The fact that neither have a Jewish family shows just how self-hating they are toward Judaism and Israel. How can either of them care about the future of of the Jewish community when their children are Gentiles?
38 | taylor, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
S, Chicago: Are you stupid or or blind? What about Yitzak Rabins policies or Sharons or Olmerts? How come they didnt lead to peace and a restoration of Israels good name? You are, at the very least, either malicious or blinkered.
39 | debra, usa, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
Hold me closer, tiny dancer.
40 | Shimi, NY, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
I totally agree with the last coment. The real self hating jew is bibi. He did not understand that the only mean for Israel to survive is to make peace. Our enemies are growing, and they are multiplying. Even in European countries and in north america.
Think a bit: did one of you already go to Jerusalem East?? NO!! so why do we need it?? It is a shame that the fact that a few extremists build settlements prevents us from developing ourself economically, Do you have any idea how developed we would be today if we people began working at 23/24 and if we did not spend that much money on military?
41 | Shimi, NY, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
I totally agree with the last coment. The real self hating jew is bibi. He did not understand that the only mean for Israel to survive is to make peace. Our enemies are growing, and they are multiplying. Even in European countries and in north america.
Think a bit: did one of you already go to Jerusalem East?? NO!! so why do we need it?? It is a shame that the fact that a few extremists build settlements prevents us from developing ourself economically, Do you have any idea how developed we would be today if we people began working at 23/24 and if we did not spend that much money on military?
42 | EW, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
"Political Marranos " is better definition for them than "self hated Jews" for they do not hate themself
and "Political Marranism " is better definition than "liberal , left wing Jews" . About their sincerety there are no doubts . They serve not Israel and her people but particular US political group and goverment that provide them with occupations, positions , & power and they sincere in their efforts. They are not worse or better than : 1} commiunists Jews ; 2} assimilationists Jews; 3} internationalists Jews. All they are Marranos, all are voluntary ones. Who not detest them?
43 | T New York, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
If you think that Israel can exits within the 1967 borders you must not know any thing about what it takes to defend Israel.
Tel Aviv , and Haifa will be under the rockets like Gaza area is now. So Israelis will either have to recapture West Bank or abandon Israel.
So Emanuel is either stupid or a self hating Jew who wants the end of Israel.
44 | Rivkah, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
Just wait till he sends you a dead fish....what is important is he is not for Israel but for himself and his president.
45 | Boris Beit Shemesh, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
To #20 - your analysis is correct, it's typical attitude for "yordim" and it is based on deep unconscious desire to prove that their decision to abandon Israel and Jewish people was the right one and it is all the fault of these "stubborn zionists".
46 | Boris Beit Shemesh, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
To #21 - your are also right, it's time to stop wining and start acting, and the only only right way to act is to harden Israel's position in response to each Obama-Emanual-Axelrod provocation. The first rule of political game is to increase the pressure as long as the other side continue to give in. The pressure stops only when met with sufficient resistance, and decreases only when met with strong enough counter-reaction. Unfortunately Bibi does not have character for that - he already agreed to settlement freeze behind the backs of the goverment, his own party and his people.
47 | Chanya, Israel, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
To S. Chicago (No. 30): I can't quite tell whether your thinly veiled anti-Semitism is the result of woeful ignorance or willful blindness. Either way, it's not pretty and you don't look very good spouting off about the "Israel lobby" etc. Either go get some badly needed education on the subject, or else be a bit more circumspect. Otherwise, you are only tarnishing your own image.
48 | Brian Tel Aviv, Israel, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
Whatever Emanuel is, he wouldn't be welcome in my home.
49 | XCXC USA, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
The obligation and purpose of the human person - all persons including Jews - is to nobly and selflessly pursue that which is good and true, and to embrace the Lord at every turn, which intrinsically entails viewing and treating all as respected equals. It does not entail entering into a never-ending pathological cycle of ignorance, hatred, victimhood, neuroticism, and superiority. If that makes one a self-hating Jew, count me in as a proud member.
50 | Amnon, the Great AMERICAN Southwest, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
Let's say for the sake of argument that Emanuel means well, that he, like Ross, Kurtzer, Indyk, Miller and others strongly believe that only pressuring Israel will bring peace. Well, again, that proves he is either extremely naive or is an extremely ignorant boy. For the Historical record has shown that many more Jews have been slaughtered in Israel by Palestinian violence ever since the Oslo Accords were signed than before. When Rabin and the Labourites signed it, they brought the Trojan House within Israel's borders. Peace has NOT worked, Israel is better off not making any more concessions.
51 | Mark Jeffery Koch Cherry Hill, New Jersey USA, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
I'm a fervent supporter of Israel and deeply resent that if you do not march in lockstep with the current government of Israel then you are a self hating Jew. That sounds more like the attitude of a dictatorship than a country that professes to be the only democracy in the Middle East. While you slur and slime Emmanuel and Axelrod you conveniently ignore the fact that former Israeli heads of the Mossad, Shin Bet, top soldiers all support a two State solution as does your current President, Defense Minister, and former foreign minister. Are you so nuts to think they all are self hating Jews?
52 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
Mark Jeffery. I think your being overly sensitive to the mix of politics and loyalty to Israel. I believe that Netanyahyu is on the record that he favours a 2 state solution, but he's also adamant that the conditions are right for Israel. In other words, peace at any price is not on his agenda. I think part of your problem is that you are horrified by the thought that you might actually agree with Netanyahu, and you have great difficulty accepting that there may be other ways to achieve Israel's goals, besides the views espoused by the current group in the White House. A lot of flexibilty will be needed, lets start with you.
53 | Claudia, Tampa, FL USA, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
I would like to know just what is the Jewish definition of a self-hating Jew. Why would a Jew be considered one? I've read it used frequently as people like academic professors who are anti-Israel. Are they trying to curry favor with non-Jews by being so critical of other Jews, etc?
54 | Ben, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
Is a Jew who earn money making an anti-semitic film or anti-Israeli policy-the self-hating Jew? I think :he is!
55 | carol muise new york, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
Number of NYC said it all. 89% of US think that also
56 | Martine, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
Answer to 41 | Shimi, NY,
Can you please answer who do you want Israel to make peace with?
Hamas ? Hezbollah ? Syria ? Lebanon Maybe ? or even better Iran ?
57 | David USA, Thursday Aug 27, 2009
Every time someone cannot engage in con |
Post your own comment