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Sunday May 31, 2009
Rosner's Domain: Adam LeBor on the "paradox" that is the city of Tel AvivPosted by SHMUEL ROSNER
Comments: 24
Adam LeBor, British author and journalist, wrote for Conde Nast Traveler about the city of Tel Aviv. "I have been visiting Tel Aviv for thirty years, since I was a teenager, and something always draws me back. Part of it is the sheer sense of wonder that this city founded on the sands in 1909, by meshuga (crazy) Zionist pioneers, not only still exists a hundred years later but crackles with energy twenty-four hours a day. In a century it's grown from nothing to a sophisticated metropolis, home to about 390,000 people. It has an internationally renowned university, a stock exchange, a vibrant media and music scene, numerous museums and art galleries, electric nightlife, and world-class restaurants. Its inhabitants are engagingly friendly and often extremely beautiful, and love to party." I sent him a couple of questions: 1. You write that "Tel Aviv was founded by ascetic Zionist pioneers but is now one of the world's most pleasure-seeking cities." Why is this a "paradox" - your definition? I think there is a contradiction between the first Zionists who wanted to rebuild the Jews of the shtetl as bronzed labourers in the modern Hebrew city, under the meditteranean sun, and who praised physical labour, and today's Tel Aviv, where most of the physical labour is carried out by foreign guest workers with uncertain immigration status. 2. You also write that "the relationship between Jaffa and Tel Aviv is analogous to that between Israel and Palestine: Tel Aviv was born as a suburb of Jaffa, but now Jaffa is a suburb of Tel Aviv". Interesting analogy, but somewhat problematic, isn't it? no one is seriously suggesting that Jaffa should be separated from Tel Aviv and become independent. It is more of a historical/cultural analogy than to do with local government. Before 1948 Jaffa was the Arab cultural capital of Palestine, with numerous cinemas, theatres, newspapers, a radio station and so on. After 1948 that world completely disappeared and 90,000 Arabs were driven out or ran away, depending which history books you read. Just as Israel swallowed up much of Palestine, its first city, Tel Aviv has swallowed up the Arabs' first city Jaffa. 3. "Tel Aviv is defined by what it is not: its great rival, Jerusalem". Did you get a sense of inferiority complex from those leaving in Tel Aviv? do you think Tel Aviv is a real competition to Jerusalem? I did not get any sense of inferiority to Jerusalem in Tel Aviv. On the contrary, I felt more of a sense of disdain for what Tel Avivians often see as a cloistered, increasingly claustrophobic city, where religious fanatics squabble over every square inch and seek to impose their lifestyle on everyone else. I don't think Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are competition to each other, they are quite different worlds. 4. You mention the different mentality of Tel Aviv's and the fact that it's almost a different country. But you do not delve into the politics of Tel Aviv. By visiting Tel Aviv, did you get an answer to the question of why the Israeli left is dead - or nearly dead? The moribund state of the Israeli left in Tel Aviv is due to the same factors as everywhere else: a feeling of powerlessness as the settlements continue to daily swallow up more Palestinian land; the rise of Soviet-style politics as embodied by Yisrael Beitenu that sees citizens as servants of the state rather than the other way around; the refusal of Hamas to negotiate and the general sense that the Arab world is neither ready for, nor interested in, any meaningful peace with Israel. It's just that in Tel Aviv there are much better bars, cafes and restaurants to go out and forget about that stuff. The bubble is very comforting. Mostly. 5. What is: The Neve Tsedek skyscraper. It is beyond belief that the municipality gave
permission for this monstrosity to be built next to the historic heart of the
city. Then again, maybe it's not. A four-lane highway next to the beach. I have never seen urban planning (if
that planning is the word) like it. Tel-Aviv, literal meaning: Hill of Spring. What hills? What spring?
1 | Sasson, Sunday May 31, 2009
Tel Aviv is also a city in which youg men vying for young girls kill each other. It is a city of prostitutes, migrant workers, and former Palestinian collaborators abandoned by the Shin Beth. Tel Aviv is a city of vice where virtue is persecuted and hounded.
2 | Christian, Sunday May 31, 2009
Jews were supposed to be a priestly people, a light upon the nations. Now, they look very much worshipers of stones, and rocks and military might.
Jews are supposed to spend a lot of time worshiping the Almighty, and golirifying the God of Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac And Jacob. Now Jews spend most of their time persecuting non-Jews and fending off charges of criminality and genocide. sad..really sad.
Jews are supposed to invite people to goodness and fight vice. Now many Jews in America and Europe are busy promoting promiscuity and pornography.
3 | Aaron Yerushalmi, French Hill, Jerusalem, Sunday May 31, 2009
There can be no peace with the settlements remaining in Palestine.
If Israel wants to keep the settlements, it will have to allow the five million refugees to return home in what is now Israel.
And a little word to Jews: The Pals have learned the lesson from what happened in 1948..they will never ever ever ever leave. So, either you kill them all, like Hitler did to you, or give them their freedom and indepenecne.
I am sure they will have their freedom at the end. They are the most resilient people under the sun.
4 | Idol worshiper of dead crosses, Sunday May 31, 2009
Xians were supposed to be love and peaceniks and they murder Jews as fast as they can, they are idiots and hypocrites
5 | aharon the faker, Sunday May 31, 2009
aharon the fake name Give me a break you are not Jewish you are an idol worshiper stop posting your idiocy with a fake name and place
6 | aaron the faker, Sunday May 31, 2009
If you knew your history you would know that Jews were called Palestinians until 1948. THe Arabs would never have called themselves that. So for "a people" that has existed for less than 60 years comparing them to Jews resilency and then Jews to Nazis is highly far-fectched, as much as your fake name and location
7 | Karl Pfeifer, Vienna, Sunday May 31, 2009
I find it interesting that some Israelis are more extreme than Palestinians. One of the pal. spokesman suggested, that the settlers could live in the new pal State on the Westbank the same as the Arabs could stay in Israel. So probably that is the solution.
nobody in Israel persecutes Non-Jews. Christians live much better there than in Arab states.
Jews are people like anybody else and it is racist to demand from them or to ask them to be better.
Yes many Jews are busy promoting bad things but so are many Christians. remember the mass murder by "Christians" in Europe.
8 | Christian aid worker, Sunday May 31, 2009
#6, it is because of pornographic lies made by people like you that many people doubt the veracity of the holocaust. Indeed, if Jews can lie about things that are happening right before our eyes, like the Gaza massacres, what would prevent them from lying about things that happened 70 years ago, let alone things that happened 2000 years ago.
In truth, it is Ashkenazi Jews who are the new comers..they came from Europe after the holocaust. They came as invaders. They have no biological connection with ancient Israel. The only justification they have is military might.
9 | Christian, Sunday May 31, 2009
#4, at least Christians don't claim to be "God's choen" and use this despicable mantra to murder, rape, steal and lie, as many Jews do.
I know christian zionists won't dare call the spade a spade when it comes to Israel. Because they are fake Christians. They are more worried about appeasing and mollifying Jews than about pleasing Jesus Christ.
10 | Nevada_len, South Florida, USA, Sunday May 31, 2009
Same old phony posters spouting the same trash over and over, using different names but the same
boring claims. There lies are spread by the Papers of Israel who give them a forum over and over again.
They have even invaded sights as "The Forward" a liberal Jewish publication on the Internet and located in the USA. Same people same rantings. It amazes me how many Non-Jews read this Internet Publication that is mostly devoted to local Jewish causes and problems, with Israeli stances thrown in for good measure.
You know the postings are phony Arab Propaganda because they are so similar.
11 | McQueen, NY, Monday Jun 01, 2009
#10 has it exactlly right. How many of these cliche Jew-hating posts do we have to read? On top of all the usual canards of genocide and misunderstandings about "chosenness," we have to read the same propaganda about Jews really being Khazars, which is absurd.
12 | Marshall, Wisconsin, USA, Monday Jun 01, 2009
Adam LeBor is no neutral observer of the Israeli scene. Some Sundays ago in the NYTimes book review section, he was the reviewer of a book about Israel. He ignored no opportunity to take little digs at Israel, culminating in a sarcastic remark about the need for the US and the West to stop "indulging" Israel on questions like settlements. As to his statement that Israel swallowed up Palestine, may I point out that Palestine was never a country. Britain gave three-fourths of the area to Jordan in 1920-22. Rosner, as a fan of yours I want to know what prompted you to chose LeBor to interview?
13 | American Christian Peace-Making team member, Texas, Monday Jun 01, 2009
Marshall, Wisconsin, don't behave like "innocent abroad"
Palestine was raped and seized by European non-Semitic Jews in 1948. These peopel have nothing to do with ancient Israel. Their seizure of Palestine was an act of rape, it is still an act of rape and will always be an act of rape.
Eexpelling an indigenous people from its ancestral homeland, and taking over their land, homes, farms, property, is a gigantic crime against humanity.
This is how honest and moral people ought to relate to the Palestinian plight..not find pretexts and excuses to help the rapists.
14 | Ted, Seminole, Oklahoma, Monday Jun 01, 2009
McQueen, one doesn't becoem a Jew-hater just because you say so.
Criticizing Israel's repression of Palestinians is not Jew-hating. The Israeli press is rife with articles criticizing Israel and Its army.
So, be honest.
15 | Sam, New York, Monday Jun 01, 2009
Nevada_len, the moment you want to suppress the views of your opponents, it means you are defeated. Engage them, prove they are wrong.
Indeed, they might have a point. They might be right after all.
16 | STEVEN US, Tuesday Jun 02, 2009
cont...THE 73 VIRGINS IN HEAVEN./ONLY IGNORANT PEOPLECAN BUY SUCH STUPID REASON TO EXPLODE YOURSELVES. NO HEAVEN, NO VIRGINS. ARE YOU JOKING? WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO MILLIONS OF MUSLIMS WITH JUST 73 VIRGINS?? GIVE ME A BREAK!!!ONCE 73 martyrs get the 73 virgins, NO MORE VIRGINS!!!!AND YOUR "RELIGIOUS LEADERS" TAKE VERY GOOD CARE NOT TO KILL THEMSELVES, JUST IN CASE...GIVE ME A BREAK! THEY KNOW THEY ARE SELLING YO( IDIOTIC AND FEARFUL PEOPLE) TRASH!.THAT´S WHY THEY ARE NOT MARTYRS/ALA¨S FAIRY TALE WAS CREATED CENTURIES AFTER ISRAELIES WERE FIGHTING OTOMANS/ROMAN,GREEKS/USE YOUR BRAINS-Get real
17 | Steven US, Tuesday Jun 02, 2009
WELL, WE ARE DEALING HERE WITH BRUTAL OPINIONS-MOST OF YOU SOUND AS IF ALL ENVY AROUND THE WORLD HAS FALLEN DOWN IN THIS POST/I HAVE PITY ON EXTREMISTS,MARTYRS AND NAIVE PEOPLE WHO ARE HAPPY SPREADING HATRED -YOU ISLAMIC HAVE NO EDUCATION , NO MERCY, NO LOVE, NO HOME , NO LIFE/ALL YOU HAVE IS YOUR BLOODY BUSINESS OF KILLING TO SURVIVE/FOLLOWING THE FEROCIOUS KUORAN TO AVOID BEING KILLED BY YOUR OWN CLERICS.YOU DON´T KNOW WHAT A DEMOCRACY IS.YOU GO TO SCHOOL TO BE TRAINED TO HATE AND KILL/YOUR MISERABLE WOMEN ARE STONED TO DEATH BEFORE THEIR FAMILY´S EYES/THEY MADE YOU BELIEVE THE 73 VIRGINS....
18 | Dan, Netanya, Wednesday Jun 03, 2009
Right, "accepting of all visitors, wherever they come from, and whatever their faith." As long as you're not Haredi.
19 | STEVEN US, Thursday Jun 04, 2009
I WONDER WHY MR ADAM KEEPS COMING BACK OVER & OVER WHEN THERE IS SOMETHING THAT ALWAYS DRAWS HIM BACK/PIONEERS( NOT CRAZY)BUILT A CITY THAT OBVIOUSLY HAS GROWN MAJESTIC LIKE ANY OTHER CITY IN THE WORLD/WHY A JEWISH CITY MUST BE DIFFERENT?HIS NOTE CAN´T CONCEAL RESENTMENT AND ENVY/IS HE DISCRIMINATING ON ANY GROUND?PRESUMABLY/EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT TERRORISTS IN THE ISLAMIC WORLD , IRRESPECTIVE OF GAZANS, ARE NOT INTERESTED IN WORKING,STUDYING,LEADING A CIVILIZED LIFE/DISCIPLINE/RESPONSIBILITY-IT TAKES A LOT TO HAVE A DEMOCRATIC STATE/IT WON´T HAPPEN-DIPLOMACY IS NEEDED TO GAIN TIME AND KEEP...
20 | STEVEN US, Thursday Jun 04, 2009
cont.DIPLOMACY IS PRETENDED BY TERRORISTS AND OBAMA TO GAIN TIME .WHY?BECAUSE OBBI IS MORE DISORIENTED THAN ADAM IN MOTHER´S DAY AND ISLAMIC TERRORISTS TAKE ADVANTAGE TO KEEP REARMING THEMSLEVES IN ORDER TO GO ON ROCKETING AND KILLING ISRAELIS/MS ADAM NEEDN´T HAVE MADE SUCH REMARK ABOUT"SWALOWING LAND"/this comment IS TO LITTLE OR NO PURPOSE/ ISRAELIS WORK/ ARABS KILL/ *ISRAEL IS AHEAD OF WESTERN COUNTRIES/ *OVER 20 ARAB COUNTRIES ARE LIVING IN ALA´S BUBBLE AND IT SURELY MUST NOT BE COMFORTABLE/ ASK ISLAMIC WOMEN MR. ADAM- THE WORLD OWES ISRAEL TONS OF INVENTIONS.JEWS HAVE BRAINS!got it?
21 | CJ in Seattle, Thursday Jun 04, 2009
Wow Marshall... got an axe to grind, do ya?
LeBor makes clear observations about historical facts, and your mind manages to warp those statements into some anti-Israeli screed? (Sounds like somebody just renewed their ADL card!)
You might want to read LeBor's book about Jaffa - "City of Oranges" - and see what a clear-eyed person with no axe to grind can learn from the history of the Arab - Israeli conflict. Before you attack LeBor for what you perceive is his bias, look into the man's other work. His voice is quite an asset in the Arab/Israeli conversation.
22 | hank F USA, Saturday Jun 06, 2009
sasson dont you mean Las Vegas...or London or paris...or Ny...or Cairo...or Damacus...oh yeah sorry Muslims kill gilrs who look twice at a man. I wish there were more Palistinian collaboraters! Why dont you join up.
23 | Dan J USA, Saturday Jun 06, 2009
Mr. #2 Non Christian if anybody does not represent Christianity...mr non Christian ITS YOU! Christian history is loaded with christians killing each other, but you finally learned from su Jews thats not nice. There is blood all over your cross. without us jews you would still be a pagan worshipping the sun and cats. You're no Christian ..I know Christians ...you're no Christian! gO PUT ON YOUR WHITE SHEET ...THERES A KKK MEETING TONITE. jESUS HATES YOUR GUTS!
24 | , Tuesday Jun 09, 2009
Once again there are a number of posts here which are not simply misinformed but which contain real Jew- hatred. Is there no way to monitor such sites so as to enable serious and respectful discussion to take place on them. Abusive language is not only cursing it is in hate- filled nonsense of the kind spouted by a number of posters here.
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