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Thursday Jun 25, 2009
Rosner's Domain: Abrams: Hillary wrong, there was agreement on settlementsPosted by SHMUEL ROSNER
Comments: 49      Follow Rosner's Domain on Twitter!!! Elliott Abrams writes: Despite fervent denials by Obama administration officials, there were indeed agreements between Israel and the United States regarding the growth of Israeli settlements on the West Bank. And explains: On settlements we also agreed on principles that would permit some continuing growth. Mr. Sharon stated these clearly in a major policy speech in December 2003: "Israel will meet all its obligations with regard to construction in the settlements. There will be no construction beyond the existing construction line, no expropriation of land for construction, no special economic incentives and no construction of new settlements." Ariel Sharon did not invent those four principles. They emerged from discussions with American officials and were discussed by Messrs. Sharon and Bush at their Aqaba meeting in June 2003. They were not secret, either. Four days after the president's letter, Mr. Sharon's Chief of Staff Dov Weissglas wrote to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that "I wish to reconfirm the following understanding, which had been reached between us: 1. Restrictions on settlement growth: within the agreed principles of settlement activities, an effort will be made in the next few days to have a better definition of the construction line of settlements in Judea & Samaria." Follow Rosner's Domain on Twitter!!!
1 | Steve U.S., Thursday Jun 25, 2009
It's nice that Mr. Abrams set the record straight. It's difficult to understand how an ostensibly pro-Israel Jew could work with President Bush to destroy the Jewish state.
2 | former settler, Thursday Jun 25, 2009
According to the Sasson report, most settlements are illegal, built on stolen Arab land.
It is sad, really sad. Settlers who claim to be religious and God-fearing hare actually land thieves and thugs. Is this Judaism? Should Jews behave in this manner?
Why do we teach our children to savage the Arabs....to do bad things...If this is Judaism..I don't want to have anything with this faith.
3 | lois, Thursday Jun 25, 2009
hilary has to keep up the millions in donations from the saudi's to the clinton library slush fund
4 | Terry - Eilat, Israel, Thursday Jun 25, 2009
#2 The fake former settler - probably lives in Gaza or Ramalllah - at least, tell the truth about who you are, all these fake posts are so obvious, can't you people ever tell the truth about anything?
5 | John, Thursday Jun 25, 2009
Did anyone write back to Weisglass confirming his understanding? That would trump all else. (I suspect not)
6 | Avraham - Yerushalayim, Thursday Jun 25, 2009
This is correct except for one point. The "within a few days" part of Dov Weisglass's famous letter wasn't complied with until...oh, yeah...IT'S NEVER BEEN DONE!
It's amazing how "within a few days" can become a decade so easily, and then we bitch that the other side isn't living up to their end of the deal.
7 | vladimir, judea, Thursday Jun 25, 2009
to so called "former settler"... illegal according to what law? according to laws of judaism this land was stolen from jews. what law are YOU referring to?
8 | Ben, Thursday Jun 25, 2009
to 2."anonymous settler".Your language-of the enemy:stolen land,illegal.The land of arabs,arrived in the land just to prevent its purchase by Jews? You are islamofascist`s at hand.
9 | Steve U.S., Thursday Jun 25, 2009
Former settler #2, Judaism teaches that the land of Israel was given to our forefathers and to their descendants as an eternal inheritance. White European settlers overspread the north American continent, expropriating American Indians and Mexicans. Americans defend this as divinely ordained under the rubric, "Manifest Destiny." I see no mention in the Bible that God gave a specific piece of real estate to any people other than the Jews. Americans are proud of their expansionist history. It seems to me Jews, instead of being proud of our heritage, want to give it to the enemy. Why?
10 | Hershel, Philladelphia, PA, Thursday Jun 25, 2009
I am happy that at least Mr. Abrams set the record straight with regard to Hilary Clinton's assertions. But frankly the fragment recorded in your article appears a bit flimsy in terms of attesting to an agreement. Was that the entire "agreement?' Did Condoleezza Rice ever acknowledge the reconfirmation?
The big question remains as to how Ariel Sharon could have justified his disastrous disengagement decision on the basis of such an obscure, covert agreement.
11 | andy-london, Thursday Jun 25, 2009
#2 your either a woman wearing your burqa or a man wearing your mother's that you haven't a clue about history unless of course it's the history you learn from the madrasses by the mad mullahs and the only history you lot have ingrained into you is "allah says kill the jews wherever you find them" and "tell as many lies as you can,and grab their land,and dont argue with them just keep repeating it until YOU believe it" Then you lot go to every nation,breed like rabbits infiltrate universities and say "woe are we as our land was stolen of us"The USA have no time for you deep down.
12 | Roz-USA, Thursday Jun 25, 2009
Former settler-since when are most settlements built on stolen land? I agree some land in a few places might be, and it behooves me why the record isn't set straight. But, as in Hebron, land previously belonging to Palestinians is bought, and Jews pay way above market price to own land. Same in E.Jerusalem, with multi millionaires like Irving Moskowitz investing millions in buying back land, in some cases buying back land that belonged to Jews prior to 48. Give me a break-don't bad mouth your own people unless you have absolute proof they are thieves, and don't believe Peace Now reports.
13 | MK boston, Thursday Jun 25, 2009
I don't understand why the settlements are a problem. Israel builded a wall, where the settlements are in the Israel side. If they expand, I assume it happens on the Israel side. I undersand that in return for that land, Israel will give back to palestinians other land belonging to Israel today----SO AMERICANS AND PALESTINIANS, WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM?
14 | Vadim, Thursday Jun 25, 2009
to John
Actually, if Ms. Rice did not respond with a sound "No", Weisglass clearly formulated question creates a big embarrassment for Obama and Clinton.
15 | iRV m usa, Thursday Jun 25, 2009
TO THE FORMER SETTLER....GOOD RIDDENCE TO BAD RUBBISH..THAT IS IF YOU ARE A jEW ...AND I DOUBT IT.. ANY SCHMUCK CAN POST IN HERE!
16 | Kevin F USA, Thursday Jun 25, 2009
The USA has to lay off Israel...its called "we shouldn't mix in"! We need each other in this coming war...and its coming. Its 1934 in Germany and Japan again...only this time it's North Korea as Japan and Iran is Germany! Those two desparate nations will start a war! I hope I'm wrong ...but the USA and israle will need each otehr in this coming war! How in the heck can the USA equate "building settlements" with suicide bombers and rockets flying into Israel? We USA went 4000 miles to fight terror AFTER 9/11! These are the same guys Israel is fighting..Hezbullah and hamas!
17 | American living in Israel, Thursday Jun 25, 2009
Abrams is not an honest person, he is an extremist neocon who would lie a million lies when seeking expediency.
He stood behind the Palestinian civil war by backing the notorious thug and warlord, Dahlan.
Besides, Jewish settlements in West Bank are illegal, irrespective of what Clinton says.
18 | German, Thursday Jun 25, 2009
MK boston, If i built a wall and take over your home, would that be ok?
The Nazis also built wall..and then asked "what is the problem"?
Are you learning from him?
19 | A Torah Jew, Thursday Jun 25, 2009
Roz-USA, according to the Sasson Report, an Israeli government report under Sharon, at least 48% of settlements were built on stolen land, land illegally seized from Palestinians.
The true figures, however, is that all settlements are illegal since they are inconsistent with international law. They all have to go. Period.
You can't steal my land at gun point and claim as yours. The Bible teaches us: Thou shall not steal.
20 | True Israelite, Thursday Jun 25, 2009
vladimir, judea, according to history you are a liar. 99% of Ashkenazi Jews originated from Eastern Europe and Khazaria. you are not Israelites, you are not semites, you are Goys.
The Palestinians are the true descendants of Ancient Israel. Their religion is Islam, yes, but they are Israelites. Actually they are more semitic and more Israelite than you.
So, don't try to preach the same stale l,ies you have bee spoon-fed by Zionism.
21 | former settler, Thursday Jun 25, 2009
Ben, Thursday Jun 25, 2009, do you think all people are fascists like you, without morality, without principles....just thugs.
Of course, I am a former settler. And of course I saw the thuggish behavior of settlers. And of course their behaviors are incompatible with the Torah.
They are thugs, criminals, thieves. That is all. you seem to be one of them....you support them. I feel sorry for you.
22 | Rowan USA, Friday Jun 26, 2009
Quite aside from any agreement regarding the settlements between Sharon and Bush, the fact remains that most of the settlements in the West Bank are legal under international law. Given that the Arabs rejected a Palestinian State in 1947,, the only governing law of the West Bank is the Palestine Mandate, which was meant to secure the establishment of a Jewish National Home (not excluding a State) and which encouraged "close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes."
23 | Bernard Lindner, USA, Friday Jun 26, 2009
During 120 (A HUNDRED AND TWENTY YEARS),Millions of Jews,which includes the Millions who perished during the Holocaust contributed weekly to the Jewish National Fund whose mission was to buy back the land which the Arabs forcefully stole from the Jewish people.
This land was used to build the infrastructure of the state of Israel. Other land was bought by some Jewish Millionnairs and by many thousands of individual Jews. Israel respects property rights of individual Arabs. State land belongs to the State of Israel.
24 | Fro, Friday Jun 26, 2009
To #2 - You're standing on shifting ground with your thinking. Because you're standing on a huge lie. If you're a Jew or Israeli, then it is tragic that you don't know what is your God-given right. The land of Israel is Israel's from thousands of years ago, look at the explanation by others here. The thieves are those who accuse Israel of 'theft' and you have joined their thought. If you're not a Jew, that there is nothing to be said, because it is inevitable that you'd think in the line of lies. Even if you're not a Jew, you should do the honest thing, by researching history honestly
25 | David W. Lincoln, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, Friday Jun 26, 2009
Whether it is about no Jews in Palestine before 1948, as muttered by those who have plenty of blood on their hands, or Hilary; somethings simply do not change.
They see what they want to see, and they refuse to countenance those things that they do not want to see.
26 | Ronald, Friday Jun 26, 2009
#2 former settler, First I don't put any credibility in your claim to be a former settler. That can be claimed by anybody. Second, so what if you are a Jewish former settler. You obviously don't respect yourself or other Jews. If you don't respect yourself, why should anyone else? Plus you are not telling the truth. Israel has not stolen any land.
27 | Chaim - Israel, Friday Jun 26, 2009
Jews should accept absolutely no restrictions in building in our land. Judea and Samaria belonged to the Jewish people thousands of years before America's birth. It is obvious that there was an understanding between Israel and the Bush administration, which proves Obama and Clinton are liars. However, America's agreement is not necessary. This tiny land is ours. We'll build wherever and whenever we want.
28 | Tom, US, Friday Jun 26, 2009
Does this mean that Israel will live up to ANY of the agreements that they have signed ? I seriously doubt it. You can't do business with people whose honor is lower than the honor of a snake.
29 | billydykesU.S.A., Friday Jun 26, 2009
to mk boston its not americans and palestinians who have a problem, its the liberals and the palestinians who have the problem.
30 | vladimir, judea, Friday Jun 26, 2009
to so called "true israelite" #20 I haven't got an answer ACCORDING TO WHAT LAW the settlements are illegal?
and if you didn't know the ROMAN word "PALESTINA" is orginated from HEBREW word "polesh" or "plisht" that means "invader". by this word ancient israelites called various nations(not one particular) that tried to invade israel.
all that means that you CANNOT be "isralite" or even more "true israelite" and "palestinian" at one time.
31 | vladimir,judea to "true israelite", Friday Jun 26, 2009
secondly, even if i accept your statement that today's "palestinians" are genetical descendants of ancient israelites(a very unsteady statement itself), what does it mean?
it means that when arab invaders from saudia occupated the Land of Israel some of israelites preferred to convert to islam. by this act they vomited themselves from the People of Israel and cutted themselves off israel's behest with God
And those "true israelites" haven't preserved nothing from the legacy of ancient israel. Neither language, nor Tora, nor customs.
32 | israel israeli, samaria, Friday Jun 26, 2009
"true israelite", according to which version of history vladimir,judea is liar ? :-)))
to say "Their religion is Islam, yes, but they are Israelites" is something like to say "he is alive, yes, but he is dead" or "i have a daughter, yes, but she is my son"
33 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Friday Jun 26, 2009
Gotta hand it to Tom. No pretext of any knowledge of the facts, Just how can you trust people whose honor is less than a snake. Having such a simple mind must make for a good night's sleep. He could simply post "I hate Jews", no matter what the topic. is. At least Jews don't post pretending to be Palistinians. I'd love to see a post that says "I;m a Palistinians and the Israelis are right. We have refused all their offers and we refuse their right to exist as a state. We need to accomodate their needs for peace and securiity. Let's take to the streets and demonstrate for peace ".
34 | Jerry, Rickmansworth UK, Friday Jun 26, 2009
By rejecting the 1948 UNGA partitition and declaring war on the Jewish inhabitants of the British Mandate of Palestine in all sectors, the local and bordering Arabs allowed the land of Israel became open to whoever succeeding in conquering it. To call that "land theft" is semantically the same as declaring the western provinces of Poland as stolen, or even Puerto Rico and Karelia. I dont hear such remarks made about other countries. Why? The British deportation of the Diego Garcians was a more heinous crime as it was unprovoked. East Jerusalem was "stolen" by Jordan between 1949 and 1967.
35 | Tom, US, Saturday Jun 27, 2009
Who really cares what the Bush dictatorship had as policies? They weren't in writing and now Obama is president. So screw your unwritten policies. You people can't even abide by the policies that you signed on to so don't be surprised as the world further encroaches upon your racist and genocidal policies regarding the indigenous people of Palestine.
36 | Jan, Australia, Saturday Jun 27, 2009
Occupied land? How many nations populations live on land they conquered/ took from others? In Australia 20 million people now live on land that the British put a flag up on, then started surveying dividing up and selling it. The locals living there were so disorganised and the invasion so huge (and still ongoing at 100 thousand per year!) they didn't stand a chance. The US is another case. Will the USA prevent all new settlement and growth on former Cherokee land? North Carolina, Georgia and Tennessee? Will any nation give up territory it has won in battle? Will US give up California?
37 | joey, Canada, Saturday Jun 27, 2009
Israel has not invented anything..........! they've only copied other ideas
In WWII Germany had a strategy of occuping conquered land and argued that they needed more Lebensraum. Then they found areas with undesirable people, and built walls around them, such as the Ghettos in Poland...... Habt Ihr das kopiert?
38 | Gabor Frankl, Saturday Jun 27, 2009
Tom buffoon, the only problem is that you lie and lie shamelessly; left-wing fascist imbecile.
39 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Saturday Jun 27, 2009
Tom what does indigenous mean? You never answered about your inside knowledge of the Mossad intel., or your inside knowledge of the Chinese pinpointing of Israeli missile launching location or how you knew that A-jad won a landslide even though he got more votes in some towns than the number of residents in those towns. But please explain your historical concept of the indigenous Palestinian.
40 | Gabor Frankl, Saturday Jun 27, 2009
The above line more than applies to "Joey" from CDN as well.
41 | Tom, US, Sunday Jun 28, 2009
Feldman wants to know what indigenous Palestinians means. If you look at the Ottoman land registries regarding Palestine and the people of Palestine you will know what indigenous means moron. You will see the names of many Palestinians whose land that you have stolen. People whose families lived on that land far longer than the jews even existed in Judea. Regarding how did I know many other things ? Maybe it had something to do with the fact that I worked intelligence for decades and remain in contact with agents world wide. So what's your excuse for ignorance?
42 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Sunday Jun 28, 2009
Tom - you working in intelligence is an oxymoran. I've checked the Ottoman land registries and I couldn't fing any Palistinian names. I am happy to see for all who read these posts that you have become a cartoon character. Tom the Master Spy, who cannot name his sources, but calls someone who questions them a moron. Tom anyway you look at it,you're a jolke-keep blogging.
P.S. Does your intell go back to before the time the Jews existed in Judea. Because you just defined indigenous.
43 | joey, Canada, Sunday Jun 28, 2009
Feldmann, you speak turkish ? ......... how could "you" check the ottoman registries? Did you go to Ankara? And how would "you" deterimine who is Palestinian by their name ? Do you even have a passport and have you even travelled beyond our borders ?..... a small mind is a dangerous thing....... Connard!
44 | Mike Feldman, Ste. Agathe, Monday Jun 29, 2009
Joey You caused me to forget a lesson I learned a long time ago. That being: When you roll with dogs, you're gonna get fleas. Your quote about a small mind is prophetic. Maybe the first step in your recovery. Does you pea for a brain actually think that 'Tom" has read the Ottoman registries and located Palestinian names? Why do you always go to the most childish of questions. Like are you on welfare? Do you have a passport? Have you travelled beyond our borders? It's like trying to debate an anti'semitc child whose mentality was arrested pre-kindergarten. Joey did you wet your pants?
45 | Mike Feldman, Ste. Adele, Monday Jun 29, 2009
Joey. For an allophone you certainly love to throw out your little French bon mots. Let me say tu es un vrai connard. Or as my people would say; a real shmuck. However your petulant style suggests that actuallly Joey is Josee and accordingly tu es une vrai connesse.
46 | Joey, Le Canada !!, Monday Jun 29, 2009
Feldman, poor perverted fool. Are you projecting your homophobic hatred? most homophobes actually have hidden suppressed homosexual urges. Don't worry Mikey, let it out. it's ok to be a Gay Jew zionist............ je sais maintenant dans quel coin tu vis............. petit PD!!
47 | Mike Feldman, Canada, Monday Jun 29, 2009
Joey-no more time to play with you, Moved on to the big boys. Au revoir
48 | DJStahl, USA, Tuesday Jun 30, 2009
Re #46: Wow--so an accusation of petulance is a sign of latent homosexuality...?! So does that mean that antisemites are all Jews? Anti-black bigots all have some black ancestry?...Can you be deeply anti-Israel and not antisemitic? (only if you're ignorant of Judaism) Can you be against gay marriage and gay rabbinic ordination but favor secular gay civil rights? Maybe it's easier if you understand French.
49 | MikeFeldman, Canada, Tuesday Jun 30, 2009
DJSthall , USA in 43 the Engflsih is obvious. Connard is French for idiot or fool. Je sais maintenant dans quel coin tu vis is roughly I know which street corner you look for. Don't be suprised if this guy insults you in his next post he hasn't much else to say.
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