 Wednesday May 27, 2009
Reports of 'death' exaggerated
Posted by Rabbi Michael Marmur
Comments: 20
    
I have been absent from this column for months, working hard to deal with the challenges facing my institution, which is struggling along with just about every other institution in the world in the current economic atmosphere. What might have sparked me back into life in the blogosphere were the reported comments of Rabbi Norman Lamm, predicting the imminent demise of the Reform and Conservative streams of Judaism. I have no idea, incidentally, if the very venerable Rabbi Lamm really said the things attributed to him in the Jerusalem Post article. Whoever did concoct the notion that non-Orthodox Judaism is on its last legs is guilty of an extreme case of wishful thinking. The truth is that there is ample and powerful evidence that a Judaism of meaning aimed at those for whom Orthodoxy is untenable, unpalatable or impossible is more urgently in demand today than ever before. What are suffering are many of the national institutions, the infrastructures of the movements and the seminaries. The prognosis offered in the name of Lamm is similar to concluding that since people no longer buy vinyl records, music is going out of fashion. The challenge for my institution, the Hebrew Union College, and for others like it, is to embrace a sustainable model of excellence in teaching and learning. Reform Judaism isn't dying - it's changing. That's what we Jews do best.
1 |
Jerry USA,
Thursday May 28, 2009
Central to the religious system called Judaism is belief in a law-giving God who chose a people and gave them commandments concerning Sabbath, food, etc. Marmur rejects all of this. He is practicing a beautiful new religion, jam packed with meaning. But its not a variant of Judaism, though its practitioners may be ethnic Jews. The label Judaism was long ago copyrighted by those keeping shabbat and kashrut. Marmur should enjoy his new religion. But shouldn't he call it something else? By the way, Im not an Orthodox Jew. Im just an observer concerned with honest labeling.
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Shalom, Cherry Hill, NJ,
Thursday May 28, 2009
Rabbi Marmur, Youve misrepresented the courts findingit did not give acknowledgement that there is more than one way to convert. In fact, the linked article clearly states that it merely dealt with a funding issue where the state doesnt want to take sides, that the exclusion of the Reform and Conservative movements violated fundamental principles of the democratic system, that is, freedom of speech and pluralism and that the reason for the funding was largely to integrate people into society, not to determine religious truth. Claiming a religious significance is weak. Shalom
3 |
Tzvi/amerikkka,
Thursday May 28, 2009
If conservative spiritual leaders would spend as much time doing outreach as they do in whining about Norman lamms comments perhaps conservative Jewry would not be going extinct...But as I have said all along the cons/ref movements are led by 5th column spies that want to destroy Jewry. this is why they spend their days whining about lamm and not doing kiruv.
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Shalom, Cherry Hill, NJ,
Thursday May 28, 2009
Rabbi Marmur, you also misrepresent the proposed 'Nakba' law--it does not threaten "to clap you in irons if you think differently"--in fact, the very article that you linked writes that it "prohibits holding events or activities that aim to mark the day of Israel's independence as a time of mourning or sorrow." Whether wise or fair or not, holding public activities is a far cry from just 'thinking differently. Surely you can be more accurate in your blog-- you have a nice writing style, but truth is more attractive than style. Shalom
5 |
Judas Iscariot, L.A.,
Thursday May 28, 2009
Th., 5/28/09
"Rabb" Marmour's opposition to the anti-nakba bill amply illustrates his assimilation with the Goyim and his lack of Torah learning. Most Moslem Arabs want to see Israel destroyed; they say so. They use their alleged nakba as 1 more weapon in the worldwide propaganda war against Jews. I was raised in the Reform movement but know better now, thank G-d. Western liberal democracy is not good for Jews back in our Land.
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Shep Fargotstein,
Thursday May 28, 2009
As a 3rd generation reform Jew, I don't agree with Rabbi Michael Marmur regarding the observance of Nakba. It should be a misdemeanor for celebrating Nakba, and it should be jail time if one doesn't vow alleginace to Israel. That is the essence of a country - to protect it's citizens and in return the citizens protect the state.
I resent it when our Jewish Reform leadership voices their opinion in a public forum and insinuates that they represent the reform movement. Rabbi Michael Marmur should stick to his day job - teaching reform Rabbis.
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Joel,
Friday May 29, 2009
"we have to try and build a society in which Jews and Arabs can find the space they need, the rights they deserve, and the justice they crave. When we get there, that will be an Independence Day worth celebrating all year." Dear author, what is your definition of "the space they need", "rights they deserve", and "justice they crave." Very pretty words but what is the substance my friend? PS Countless studies have shown that Observant Jews will be in the majority very soon. and that is not just because a higher BR. Kids, like me, raised Reform, thank Chabad for introducing them to Torah.
8 |
Joel,
Friday May 29, 2009
"we have to try and build a society in which Jews and Arabs can find the space they need, the rights they deserve, and the justice they crave. When we get there, that will be an Independence Day worth celebrating all year." Dear author, what is your definition of "the space they need", "rights they deserve", and "justice they crave." Very pretty words but what is the substance my friend? PS Countless studies have shown that Observant Jews will be in the majority very soon. and that is not just because a higher BR. Kids, like me, raised Reform, thank Chabad for introducing them to Torah.
9 |
Roddy Frankel,
Friday May 29, 2009
While I agree that Reform/Liberal Judaism is far from dead, I would point out that in times of escalating anti-semitism, Orthodox Jews adhere to their religion more tenaciously. Liberal Jews, in my experience, are more likely to hide their Jewish identity. While this seems like a pragmatic solution to avoid conflict, it always emboldens anti-semites and diminishes our own self-worth. The anti-semites respect us less, and worse yet, our children respect us less. This is why the Orthodox command more respect. Despite being spat on, beaten and ridiculed, they still soldier on over the centuries.
10 |
Morton Friedman Lanham, MD,
Saturday May 30, 2009
600 characters is inadequate. Born in Orthodox, and have followed Conservative and Reformed. But take note of the difference between actions and words. I am an American jew who has ceased financial support for any jewish sect that acts, in my opinion, against my, my country's, or Judaism's best interest. Let the rabbis preach, talk, think.. But I will judge their Actions, and react according to my understanding of the religious principles of Judaism. No, I am not the messiah.. but neither are they. The very term, Man of g-d, is abhorrent to me. I do not limit that term to Judaism.
11 |
Cember,
Monday Jun 01, 2009
I believe that religion is only part of Jewish identity, but a major one. The need for a Jewish Religious Reformation is manifest in the immoral behavior of Israel's official synagogues. Liberal democracy, and the right to publicly oppose the majority have been JEWISH values for hundreds of years. The religious establishment seeks to reverse this, and so acts against both Judaism and the State. Seeking to outlaw Naqba protest is the same as the religious ideas they seek to suppress. If they are so sure that they're right, why are they so afraid to compete in the marketplace of ideas?
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Shalom, Cherry Hill, NJ,
Tuesday Jun 02, 2009
To Cember, you seem to be confused about what Torah based Judaism is. While liberal democracy is a fine way to govern those ready for it (as opposed to the people of Gaza at this time) it has nothing to do with Judaism. If every Jew voted to end Shabbat observance, it would be just as invalid as if a minority of 1 did, as Shabbat is eternally binding in either case. Detaching religion from the state, however, is an idea with a lot of merit, as money and power do corrupt--whatever the religious denomination. Don't forget that the Reform in Germany outlawed mikvah. Shalom
13 |
Daniel, Virginia,
Thursday Jun 04, 2009
Shalom, Jerry, and others - please do not separate liberal Judaism from "Torah-based Judaism." The existence of Rabbinic courts--not to mention the story of the Oven of Akhnai--verify that democratic values *are* at home in Jewish tradition, and the championing of these values in modern Torah study is by no means an abandonment of the heart of our faith. I agree, Shalom, that Shabbat has always been central to Judaism, but it has not always been observed as the "Orthodox" observe it today (if consensus can even be found). Liberal Judaism has revitalized these ideals; it has not discarded them.
14 |
Cantor Penny Kessler, Bethel, CT,
Thursday Jun 04, 2009
To Shep Fargotstein: As a 2nd generation (on my mother's side at least) American, I find it abhorrent that a democracy would even consider making opposing speech - even the kind that we find vile - a misdemeanor. No, sir, the essence of a country's protecting its citizens is giving citizens the right to free speech. I'm not talking about the right to yell "fire" in a crowded theater, but rather the free and unfettered right to speak minds.
15 |
Shalom, Cherry Hill, NJ,
Friday Jun 05, 2009
Daniel, Nonsense--in the Oven of Akhnai they were discussing how to follow the Torah as accurately as possible, while liberal Judaism (if that means Reform and many Conservative) hold that one is not obligated to follow it at all. It was democratic ONLY in that a majority of Rabbis who all believed in a G-d given Torah that we MUST follow were voting on HOW to do so. It doesn't mean anyone can vote to not keep the mitzvot. Also, Shabbat ALWAYS meant no melacha--obviously before electricity there were no Shabbat timers etc so it was different. (cont)
16 |
Shalom, Cherry Hill, NJ,
Friday Jun 05, 2009
(cont to Daniel) Please tell me what you mean in saying that Liberal Judaism has revitalized these ideals-- since they do not keep Shabbat, Kashrut, and so on, that makes no sense to me. Driving to synagogue to sing modern tunes using musical instruments and having treif kiddush doesn't qualify as 'revitalizing'. Neither does being a vegan, by the way, as that contradicts the command to have dominion over the world, and implies that korbanot are a negative--clearly an idea that 'insults' (if one can use that term in the context) G-d and His mitzvot. Shalom
17 |
Avrohom - Israel,
Friday Jun 12, 2009
In another 20 years the actual percentage of people belonging to the reform Jewish assocaition who are truly Jewish may well be below 25% since their 'converts' are not Jewish and the children of non-Jewish women are not Jewish.... well who will be left who is really Jewish? And of those 25%, or whatever percentage it may be, how many will marry a non-Jew and how many of their children will do the same? The fact is regardless of whatever protest reform make, they will become lost to Judaism. It is a sad thing, indeed. Their children will not have a Torah status as Jews. This is very sad.
18 |
Cheryle Puerto Rico,
Sunday Jun 14, 2009
Welcome back, Michael. How dare Jews sit in judgement of their brethren? Israel belongs to us all. If we can't love and respect one another how are our neighbors going to treat us? And, speaking of our neighbors, in a democracy, everyone has the right to freedom of speech. Until , and if, such time that those living among us with different views are living elsewhere, we have no choice but to permit them to express their views in a peaceful manner. I am not quite certain as to the identity of the 'real' enemy. Keep up the fight, Michael. I will join you in August as a new olah.
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Cember,
Thursday Jun 18, 2009
IMHO the primary difference between so-called Orthodoxy and "Liberal Judaism" is in their positions on yeridat hadorot. I conclude that the Orthodox take an irrational position when they argue that the accumulation of knowledge over time has led to a DEGRADATION in the ability of scholars to arrive at valid conclusions. The more liberal position, that with increased knowledge comes the ability to make BETTER decisions is not a rejection of the 271 mitzvot of the Khafetz Khayim. eg - The mitzvot concerning the treatment of leprosy clearly need revision based on current medical knowledge.
20 |
Shalom, Cherry Hill, NJ,
Friday Jun 19, 2009
To Cember--there are no mitzvot regarding leprosy in the Torah. If you are thinking of 'tzora'at'--it was a spiritual disease with a physical manifestation. The issue isn't about the 'accumulation of knowledge' but that of being connected to holiness; an excellent proof of this is how Reform was so quick to throw out Kashrut, Shabbat, and so on. That had nothing to do with improved science--rather, it was a lack of belief in Torah mi'Sinai. Another example is the Conservative heter to drive to shul, and now nearly all drive to the mall on Shabbat. Shalom
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