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Thursday Aug 20, 2009
Point / Counterpoint: History didn't start with Netanyahu's government Posted by Edwin Bennatan
Comments: 20
Counterpoint to:
In the 1993 movie Groundhog Day, history stops while the previous day's events are erased, and the day is then relived in a different way. I was reminded of this movie while reading the Hussein Agha and Robert Malley opinion piece in The New York Times. For them, it would appear, history stopped at the end of March and the events of previous Israeli governments were erased. History was then restarted in April with Binyamin Netanyahu as prime minister. Here is Agha and Malley's version of the policies of Israel's governments:
But much more than "minor modifications" separate Netanyahu's official position from those of Barak, Sharon and Olmert, the Israeli leaders who preceded him. According to chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat, the Palestinians were offered a state in the West Bank, Arab East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip. There were to be minor land swaps between Israel proper and about 4% of the West Bank territory located along the proposed border where the majority of Jewish settlers live. This was the most recent deal that was negotiated by the Israeli and Palestinian teams in the post-Annapolis discussions last year, and after reaching agreement on almost all the issues the Palestinians once again walked away, just as they rejected the United Nations partition plan in 1947, the Clinton peace plan at Camp David in 2000, and the Taba offer in 2001.
Olmert continues: "I believe it is crucial to review the lessons from the Palestinians' rejection of such an offer," which is precisely what the Israeli electorate did when they elected the Netanyahu government. While Netanyahu is offering less than his two predecessors, no one really expected anything else when he was elected. Israel chose a right-wing government earlier this year out of total frustration with the prospect of ever reaching a peace deal with the Palestinians. This followed more than twelve thousand cross-border rockets fired into Israeli towns and villages from Gaza, after Israel unilaterally withdrew from the strip (mistakenly, many now say). Agha and Malley criticize Israel's insistence that any future Palestinian state would have to be demilitarized without full control over borders or airspace, and that no Palestinian refugees would be allowed back into Israel. But considering the history of the conflict, these demands are a vital necessity for Israel, and their outright rejection is a major obstacle for peace, as they most likely always will be. Interestingly, while the authors have not grasped this key point, the Palestinian negotiators have. Most Israelis now believe that Gaza is just an example of what can be expected if Israel ever hands over the West Bank to the Palestinians, except that then it would be cross-border rockets into Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and Ben Gurion airport. Therefore, from Israel's perspective, the control of airspace and borders by Palestinians by necessity must initially be limited, though it can grow in time as Israel gains more confidence in the Palestinians' abandonment of their aspirations to destroy their Jewish neighbors, and in their acceptance of the idea of living in peace. Palestinian refugees will be able either to return to the new Palestinian state or they will be able to choose compensation. But there is no way that Israel could ever permit thousands or even millions of hostile belligerents to stream into its territory, no matter how these people describe their version of history. The authors also criticize Netanyahu's demand that the Palestinians formally recognize Israel as a Jewish state - a demand that they believe is supported by most Israelis. But it is unclear whether their belief is correct, and in actuality most Israelis may well be indifferent to how the Palestinians regard Israel, so long as they live in peace alongside it. (Even the term "Jewish state" is contentious, the original term used by Herzl having been Der Judenstaat, which in Hebrew is usually translated as "the state of the Jews", which has a very different connotation.)
While Abbas does have a point, Agha and Malley actually reinforce Netanyahu's demand when they say:
And that is precisely why there can be no real peace until the Palestinians come to terms with the existence of the Jewish homeland next door. Israelis and Palestinians will never agree on the history of the conflict (each have their own version), and so there is no other way of resolving the conflict other than looking forward rather than backward. In fact, dwelling on the past is a sure way of guaranteeing another century of conflict. Agha and Malley conclude their discussion with the statement that "the heart of the matter is not necessarily how to define a state of Palestine. It is, as in a sense it always has been, how to define the state of Israel." But anyone who imagines that the definition of Israel is, or will ever be, on the table is fantasizing. The definition of Israel is no more on the table than is the definition of England, and probably even less so. Palestinians would do much better if they concentrated on the definition of their own state.
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David Hertz, New York, USA,
Thursday Aug 20, 2009
While indeed history didn't start with the Netanyahu government, it seems that most of the pro-Palestinian league prefers to pretend it did. It is easier for them to hold up Netanyahu as the reason there is no peace agreement, when in fact they have rejected every attempt at peace for more than 60 years. Good piece by Bennatan.
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Morton Friedman Lanham, MD,
Thursday Aug 20, 2009
The definition of Israel should be that in that great history book, the Old Testament. It provides the origins, the boundaries, the system of government, etc. It predates Balfour Declarations, Mandates, the UN, by many, many centuries. And it is a far more internationally accepted document than anything since. For those who subscribe to UN resolutions on conquered lands, refer back to the Torah, and return all the conquered lands to identified owners.
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Barbara from Canada,
Thursday Aug 20, 2009
How to define the state of Israel 1 Tear down the wall -concept of East /West Jerusalem. Toronto, Montreal, Canada, several years ago, incorporated areas under a single banner. The country is Israel, not Israel with another state included. Listen to new voice coming out of US from recent visits that call for just the country of Israel and allowing those not born in Israel to leave, they haven't been in the Gaza for more that 8 years.
A Canadian Teacher
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Akiva Avrohum, Manhattan, NY,
Thursday Aug 20, 2009
A Palestinian state will fail ! That is a 100% certainty. It will become a legalized state for supporting terrorist operations and will again be invaded by Israel to clean it out. Let the present Palestinian arabs migrate into their fellow arab nations or accept their current condition. Israel cannot accept the millions of arab refugees that would be kicked out of the 22 arab nations if such a deal is approved.
It would mean the destruction of the Jewish state if above is allowed. There will never be a Palestinian state that will function properly and live in peace with Israel !
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muslim,
Thursday Aug 20, 2009
as long as the problem is seen as an Israeli-Palestinian one....Any negotiation will go nowhere.It has always been an Israeli-Arab problem.Arab countries have different interests and have always used the Palestinians to destabilize each other.If the Arab regimes try to solve the Palestinian problem in a reasonable way they "risk" destabilization,but if they don't ...time is against them and at the end they will be destabilized.The "ball" has never been and can't be in the Israeli side.The west or Israelis can do nothing... THERE IS THE ANOUAR AL-SADAT SYNDROME...
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Vladimir, USA,
Thursday Aug 20, 2009
"Palestinians" did not walk away in 1947 - they did not exist that time, as well as now. They were called and they called themselves Arabs. Moreover, they vehemently denied that Palestine was ever existed and called it a "Zionist invention". Arabs claimed that Palestine is just Southern Syria. After 1967 war, Soviet KGB while training Arafat thugs and terrorists to murder Jews, impregnated Arafat with the idea of "palestinians" in order to claim "self-determination" (self-determination was Kremlin's favourit horse to undermine colonial empires Brit and France in UN). It is history.
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Vladimir, USA,
Thursday Aug 20, 2009
Palestinians" did not walk away in 1947 - they did not exist that time, as well as now. They were called and they called themselves Arabs. Moreover, they vehemently denied that Palestine was ever existed and called it a "Zionist invention". Arabs claimed that Palestine is just Southern Syria. After 1967 war, Soviet KGB while training Arafat thugs and terrorists to murder Jews, impregnated Arafat with the idea of "palestinians" in order to claim "self-determination" (self-determination was Kremlin's favourit horse to undermine colonial empires Brit and France in UN). It is history.
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Bert Cohen, New York,
Thursday Aug 20, 2009
One major problem in all of this is American foreign policy which has NEVER fully accepted the legitimacy of the State of Israel. Note that to this day the U.S. refuses to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel in deference to Israel's implacable Arab enemies. That hands the Arabs a veto over U.S policy on Jerusalem. Never mind history and the League of Nations agreement, etc. That non-recogniton of Jerusalem is a clear signal to the Arabs that the administration regards Israel as non-permanent.
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Roz-USA,
Friday Aug 21, 2009
I think Bert Cohen is on to THE most meaningful statement of all-starting with Truman's time, the State Dept. in particular, and various presidents, have been outright hostile to Israel, or indifferent at best. Truman had reasons for accepting the fledging State-I call it divine intervention; the same for Nixon with sending vital supplies after our own Jewish Kissinger wanted to screw us really bad. Our own govt. here in the USA has mixed feelings about Israel, despite their saying how committed they are to Israel's security. Baloney. Pray that G-d keeps intervening to our benefit.
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Jean - Georgia,
Friday Aug 21, 2009
Well, one thing is obvious. Olmert is still CLUELESS. The arabs don't want a palestinian state, they've never wanted a palestinian state, all they want is the destruction of Israel. There are probably 10 MILLION people in the United States that realize this. On the other hand, Olmert has been standing right in the middle of it for years and he is still CLUELESS. It's so amazing that it's almost surreal - can he really be so CLUELESS?? Is it all an act?
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Jay Goldberg, Illinois, USA,
Friday Aug 21, 2009
Jean (#10): I don't think Olmert is clueless, but you certainly seem to be.
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akiva Avrohum, Manhattan, NY,
Friday Aug 21, 2009
Yes, Bert Cohen is correct. The State Department has never accepted the State of Israel as a legitimate country. Israel has been used by different Presidents to protect American interests in the middle east during the cold war years. However, now that the cold war is over, there is no need for backing an oil poor Israel. It is now oil rich Arab countries that are the main focus of greedy American interests.
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DAVID USA,
Friday Aug 21, 2009
To Morton Friedman # 2 : Morton the definition of Israel in that grat histiory book, the Old Testament" was the state of Yehuda or Judea. The state of Israel had been wiped out by the Assyians in 721 BCE. So perhaps they should drop "israel" and rename today's Israel Yehuda, meaning the state of the Jews - problem solved.
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John shoemaker Laurel Mississippi,
Saturday Aug 22, 2009
"His-story?
Can anyone help me find archaeological evidence for the existence of a "Hebrew" people or of ancient Israel or of biblical writing prior to ~500 BCE? Does anyone disagree that Bible stories are as garments wrapped about Torah and that the Aleph-Tav are Hieroglyphs(spiritual glyphs) that one can learn to find within?
My Koren Publishers Jerusalem Limited Tanach has a picture of a trek over a thin ridge of rocks east of Baal Zephon(on the Med.) that within a few miles return to Egypt. Does anyone have one?
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REX USA,
Saturday Aug 22, 2009
#14 During the reign of Egyptian pharaoh Amenhotep III, the Canaanites wrote the Tel-Amarna letters stating the Haribu (Hebrews) are invading Canaan. The Canaanites wanted military intervention from Amenhotep III, who collected their tribute and offered no help. Later in history the Merneptah Stele reads, "Israel destroyed her seed (children) not". Refers to Jabin the Canaanite's harsh reign over Israel for 20 yrs. These artifacts prove the Hebrews were in the land of Israel. 1 Kings 6:1 would reveal by biblical numbers that Thutmose III was pharaoh of the Exodus.
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Skylark St. Louis, USA,
Saturday Aug 22, 2009
Whatever peace document the Arabs want you to sign is drawn up for Israel's destruction. Every week a European leader announces Israel should sign a phony peace document. The Europeans want to place the Trojan Horse in Jerusalem; the European cities are becoming Arab cities but the European politicans wanting Israel to sign the peace documents won't live with the Arabs in Gaza, and the Arab neighborhoods in London, Paris, Frankfort and Amsterdam. Rockets are not being fired into European cities at this time in history. Bibi keep telling them no to those phony peacemakers!
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John Morita,
Saturday Aug 22, 2009
Borders are created by man. There are many pro Western countries whose only legitimacy is based on US foreign aid and military support. Will American foreign policy change? Change or not it is coming.
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Reuven Ben-Daniel, Israel,
Sunday Aug 23, 2009
# 14 #15 The books of Velikovski give the true history ,that was altered by the Egyptians, by them repeating the historical account .Those in the USA will be able to buy the books, but in Israel the Hebrew University put pressure on the book chains not to sell his books. If you want to fail in the Archaeology faculty exams, just mention Velikovski in a good light.
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Daran,
Tuesday Aug 25, 2009
Rex that inscription in english reads as "Israel laid waste, its seed no more" and Tel Amarna letters have the haribu attacking from the north east I thought, not from the south as people coming out of sinai would have ? have faith in your beliefs in deity without trying to massage history to fit your relgious sensiblities.
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Sol Grazi, Israel,
Wednesday Aug 26, 2009
#14 - At the very least, there are archaeological digs in the Old City which date back to the first Temple. Also in Meggido, many finds date to the time of King Ahab, who built a tunnel going to a water supply for the city. I know there are many others, but these are ones I have seen.
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