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Monday Jun 29, 2009
The Other View: The coming of the third intifada?
Posted by Ziad Khalil Abu Zayyad
Comments: 66
    
Since its establishment, the State of Israel has largely depended on its security forces and intelligence agencies to ensure its national security. Today, Israel believes that diminished Palestinian attacks is a result of the successful efforts of its security and intelligence forces. Israel began building its intelligence and security forces even before the declaration of the state of 1948. Jews in Palestine did not trust the Arabs who lived among them, and often offered bribes to the Arab population in exchange for information about Arab plans in Palestine. The Israelis also went about recruiting inside the Arab world, across the Middle East, and around the world.  Palestinian workers wait to cross a checkpoint to work And although Israeli intelligence services over the years succeeded in getting many Palestinians on their payroll, Israel utterly failed in shutting down Palestinian movements. In other words, Israel 'managed' the conflict but never solved it. The current Israeli political leadership is acting in the same way; it is stalling. Reason being that a solution to the conflict will cost Israel and no Israeli leadership is prepared to take responsibility. Israeli intelligence services have worked not only to collect information about Palestinian activists to target them, they also believed it was possible to cultivate their own sympathizers inside the Palestinian leadership. This is similar to American attempts to create friendly governments in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq and now in Iran. The plan is to support opposition movements inside each country considered a threat or simply 'uncooperative.' The real question is whether any such efforts brought about real results for any country, or whether it is a temporary 'treatment' for a confrontation that is destined to just flare up again. No country has succeeded in creating an allied government lasting more than a few years, because from the day it is created, the people consider it a betrayal and have reason to rise against it. Currently, the Palestinian movements seem to be divided, weak, and far from launching an attack against Israel. Israel may consider this a great achievement. But at the same time, no political solution seems to be in the works. The period between the first and second Intifada looked similar to the period we are currently in today, and the end of each of these periods saw a new cycle of violence that resulted in many deaths on both sides and more enraged hate. Israel's security efforts have not dealt with the Palestinian issue, since it works for today's security but fails to address tomorrow's possible change. The 'management' of the conflict can never bring about its solution. This sounds similar to US President Barack Obama's reason for 'change' in US foreign policy towards the region due to his conviction that there must be a change in policy since all past attempts have failed to bring calm to the Middle East. Currently, the Israeli political leadership is angling towards another four years of conflict 'management,' until the next government comes along. This temporary - and not very effective - approach only threatens the chances for peace and poses a danger to both people as each day that passes without finding a fair solution for both sides brings us closer to another round of violence.
1 |
Ivory Tower,
Tuesday Jun 30, 2009
"Jews in Palestine did not trust the Arabs who lived among them"? That's a wonderfully overstated remark. I must have forgotten about the 1920 riots, 1921 riots, 1929 Hebron massacre and Safed massacre, and the 1936-39 Arab revolt.
And how is Israel supposed to resolve the situation whilst the Palestinian leadership is so divided? Beyond this, Hamas openly declares its intention to destroy Israel and the PA would like to achieve the same through alternative means.
Israel surely has obligations but you mention nothing about Palestinian responsibilities. But this seems to be the tiresome norm.
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Ray Saperstein, Baltimore,MD,
Tuesday Jun 30, 2009
Ziad, with whom should Israel seek a political solution at this time? Should they negotiate with Hamas, a terrorist entity that won't even recognize Israels' existance? Should they negotiate with Abbas, who has no power to impose a solution on Gaza? Can Abbas even walk safely down a street in Gaza City? As long as the Palestinians cannot present a united front that is prepared to accept any kind of negotiated settlement, there is no point in negotiaitions. This just seems to me to be more of a Palestinian blaming Israel for the current problem.
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Dave,
Tuesday Jun 30, 2009
Negotiate with whom?
Why is it that leftists are so bent on negotiating with a peoples that don't exist. There is no such thing as a Plaestinian people and there never has bee. Please know your history of the region before spouting such nonsense. The so-called palestinians which is an old Roman name use to describe the Jews in Israel hijacked the term or name in recent modern times. These are the exact same people who now live in Jordan. They were just considered a low class of people by their owner brothers who kicked them out fo their own land which was modern day Jordan.
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Ziad khalil Abu Zayyad,
Tuesday Jun 30, 2009
Ivory and Ray...it is a pity that you only got out from this article with more claims to justify israel's lack of will for peace with Palestinians. The claims of Hamas and the no partner sentence will not serve you anymore..The whole world knows very well what is Israel's will especially with personalities like Liberman in the government...Sarkozi and the americans are an example for the world's opinion about the current Israeli government..Ivory do not forget that in the time of the Arab rise...Jews were coming from around the world to come and take their homes...wont you do the same?
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McQueen NYC,
Tuesday Jun 30, 2009
Israel is managing the conflict because the failure of the Palestinians to accept Israel makes peace at this time impossible. Get back to us when you understand this, Ziad.
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Ziad khalil abu zayyad,
Tuesday Jun 30, 2009
The past is not important once you are ready to accept the idea of the existence of an other people who lives beside you and deserve his liberty...Hamas's issue did not exist in the ninties and still Israel refuse to reach a serious final agreement..do you know why? Because the Israeli leadership was not courage enough to take desicions...This is what Israeli leaders say...Many told me this..so if you really want security and peace start by accepting the idea of another people who lives on this land and only by doing this you will prevent a 3rd and 4th intifada and achieve security for Israel.
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aspacia USA,
Tuesday Jun 30, 2009
Typical victim mindset-hey when there is a problem blame Israel or the US. Geez, the Arabs could have turned Gaza into a resort, instead they indiscriminately lob rockets into Israel. Arabs have been attacking Jews on legally owned Jewish property since 1911, but it is always their fault.
Grow up, and quit whining.
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alan ash new york,
Tuesday Jun 30, 2009
how can we even doubt that there will not be another intifada-------lets be honest with ourselves --otherwise shame on us --.it is coming lets prepare.
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Ben,
Tuesday Jun 30, 2009
this arab confirms well known fact that they understand and value the violence! .Israel`s final victory would be the overhelming violence, and they would have to believe in it! Leftist dreamers must know it and not deceive as .
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Elise USA,
Tuesday Jun 30, 2009
I think that there are two issues here running concurrently. One being the disunity and fragmentation of the palestinisn so-called leadership. I use that world cautiously only beause they seem more interested in maintaining power then trying tofigure out a solution that .will enfranchise their people. This I fear has been the charachteristic of Palestinian leadership since the Arab awakening.
The second issue: Israeli neglect. Israel cannot have a people live within its boarders or under its supervision without taking responsibility for their well being. War does not make wrongs rights.
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Bob Rosen,
Tuesday Jun 30, 2009
Zaid, your education is lacking in what's called the TRUTH! You have every right to live your lives, but you appear to forget that Israeli's also have that same right. You are being used as dupes of the "Islamic Revolution." Your whole 2nd paragraph- So what? Why not? This isn't done? IYou sound like you actually believe that srael has secret plans to control the world? As opposed to what? The open plans to cause mayhem and disaster by Islamic governments ALL OVER THE WORLD? And don't fool yourselves, Israel could have "solved' the problem themselves, but was presuaded not to.
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Desert Eagle,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
Ziad is cautious in acknowledging how widespread Palestinian cooperation with Israeli intelligence services has been. Apart from those who were seduced or blackmailed how many Palestinians cooperated because it was realistic to attempt to limit the violence by identifying those who had chosen a path of terrorism? I assume this will end once a Palestinian state is declared in the West Bank. Intelligence functions will shift to the settlers who remain at their towns and outposts. A third intifada would simply stop the peace process and make the security fence the de facto border.
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Desert Eagle,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
The political solution is for there to be a West Bank Palestinian state. Palestinians in Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria might move to the West Bank, once infrastructure, housing, and economic development is underway. Return into Israel is a no go. It is not practical. It is not acheivable by war or intifada. East Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital is up for grabs as the only issue Israel could conceivably concede on - if the price was right. Politically, the Saudi monarchy is the only political player with motivation and ability to move the PA negotiating team. Gaza sits alone.
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Desert Eagle,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
Ziad, unfortunately there is no fair solution. There is not enough room for millions of descendants of Palestinian refugees to go back to the childhood homes of their parents and grandparents. And there is no trust. Contiguity with Gaza won't work for anyone. Neither the Israeli government nor the PA can make the core concessions the other side wants. That's why the Obama/Saudi monarchy deal is in play. Can the Saudis force concessions on a weak PA government and put enough money into the West Bank to hold off Hamas? Can Dayton train an army? Without checkpoints will there not be bombs?
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Maverick US,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
It is beginning to appear that a two-state solution no longer provides a viable way towards reconciliation between Palestinian Arabs and Israeli Jews and that perhaps the only way towards peaceful coexistence is the one-state solution granting equal rights to both sides under one unified government.
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Maverick US,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
It appears that a two-state solution may no longer provide a viable way towards reconciliation between Palestinian Arabs and Israeli Jews. Perhaps the struggle must ascend to a new level, that of striving for a one-state solution granting equal rights to both sides under one unified government. Let us hope that activists on both sides of the divide can unite through non-violent action taking the high moral ground and stealing the show from those who have resorted to violence..
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Avrohom - Israel,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
The end of this conflict will come around when Arabs accept the truth that this is our eternal homeland and our right to our land and Jewish state in nit negotiable. Arabs need to take responsibility for the refugee problem which is a result of Arab hositlity and lack of compassion for their Arab brethren. The correct response to intifiada is harsher measures. We have no obligation to put ourselves at more risk and we have every right to our land. Arabs have to come to grips with this reality. Arabs cannot expect us to forget the last 60 years or since 67. You attack we defend. Live with it.
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Pam Blunt, Tucson Arizona,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
Well, right now, this moment, the Israeli navy surrounded a small unarmed ship in international waters, the Spirit of Humanity, carrying medical and reconstruction supplies to Gaza. The boat was not within the waters of Israel and had been cleared as unarmed out of Cyprus. Aboard is a former Noble Laureate and a former US Congresswoman and many other peace activitists from all over Europe. Boat is not being towed and those on board will be held.
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Morton Friedman Lanham, MD,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
What is the problem with stalling. Just keep your intelligence apparatus effective, and your guard up. It is better than the War of Attrition that Israel was subjected to for many years. When there is no valid partner for peace, there remains just one more alternative, a War of Annihilation.
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Roddy Frankel,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
I just love the caption under the photo: "Palestinian workers wait to cross a checkpoint..." As if security checkpoints are somehow a violation of human rights! Ziad, do you feel sorry for me every time I have to wait at a checkpoint at the airport? Are my rights being violated every time I must wait at a customs checkpoint when I drive to Canada? Do you prefer no security? Today, a half hour after US troupes left Kirkuk, Iraq, a car bomb exploded in a market, killing thirty innocent Iraqis. Is this the kind of peace and security you desire?
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Vadim,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
The assumption that Israel/Americans or anyone else can solve the conflict is faulty from the very beginning. Not because of the "lack of the negotiation partner" on the Palestinian side, but because in this way the Palestinians are viewed as children or animals, whose reactions are completely "natural", and who are not able to take responsibility for their actions. While this may be merely naivete on behalf of the Palestinians, it is hidden racism on behalf of Israeli/American "pro-Palestinian" left wing.
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Marc, Boston Massachusetts,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
The truth is the Israeli leadership has offered to start peace talks any time, any place, with no predconditions. Both the Palestinians and Syria have rejected this. You really can't blame Israel for the lack of progress. Furthermore, you cannot dismiss the fact that the Palestinians are too divided. Hamas controls the Gaza strip and is not willing to give up on the destruction of the Jewish state. Fatah controls the West Bank and is very weak. Any coming intifada would only be a demonstration that the Palestinians don't understand that violence will only hurt them.
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Ziad khalil Abu Zayyad,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
in the beginning of the Intifada..the reason was that Ariel Sharon started his military campaign by striking the buildings which were originally made by the Americans. Although he knew that these forces were acting for the sake of security and even brought benefit for Israel, he preferred to destroy them just to be sure! The current situation is different; most of the Palestinians are convinced that a peace solution is the answer. However, they accept peace but not surrender! West Bank and Gaza, East Jerusalem as a capital in a 1967 borders state, and a FAIR solution for the refugees...this is
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Ziad Khalil Abu Zayyad,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
This is what the Arab Peace Initiative is asking for in order to give back in exchange a complete normalization and peace for Israel with over 55 Arab and Islamic countries...So tell me now what is better for security...to put an end for this conflcit by giving back for the Palestinians what they are asking for and only reaches almost 22 percent of the historic land of Palestine and by doing this to gain the support of tens of Arab countries to face other threats, or to say that there is nothing called a Palestinian people (which sounds really over racism) and believe that god made deals with
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Ziad Khalil Abu Zayyad,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
with Jews or Muslims to control the whole land? This is ridiculous because every religion can be used to find out claims to control anything...Christianity did the same in the time of crusades but changed. The Palestinians have been living on this land and were kicked out of their homes to get someone else to come and live in their places..they have to be given what they are asking now to be fair. Unless this is done, the Middle East will turn one day to a place that no government can rule...and by the way for the one who said that my education lacks honesty..well your info is full of lies..
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jonah Viet-Nam,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
Intifada Nth ? C0me !
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Ray Saperstein, Baltimore,USA,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
Ziad. while continuing to blame Israeli leadership, you still didn't answer the question of who will be at the negotiating table. What Palestinian leaders will be there? Israel withdrew from Gaza- that was a hard decision and is still reverberating in Israel, You know what Israel got for that peaceful gesture.You seem to put forth the idea that the Palestinians are ready for peace, but Israel is unwilling. Do we see Palestinian peace in calls for the destruction of Israel? Do we see it in your educational system that teaches hate and denial towards Israel?
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David J Feiger USA,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
In 1918 at the Versailles Peace Conference the Mandate System was established for the creation of states for various peoples that had been part of the Ottoman Empire. Greater Syria was divided into the north Mandated to France for the development of the new states of Lebanon a Christian Arab Homeland were many refugees from the Christian Armenian Genocide and pogroms against Greek Orthodox Christians. Britain was Mandated .to administer Iraq and Southern Greater Syria which was designated as Palestine for the Implementation of the Balfour Declaration to establish the Jewish Homeland. cont
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David J Feiger USA,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
This was excepted by the Council of Ten and became part of International Law. The actual establishment of the Jewish Homeland in Palestine was at the 1920 Sanremo peace conference where the Balfour Declaration was adopted by the Supreme Council of the Principal Allied Powers as the basis for the administration of Palestine which would henceforth be known as the Jewish National Home. Home was defined by the British Cabinet vote in 1917 as specified in the Balfour Declaration as a state. Palestine only refers to Jews. CisJordan and TransJordan were Jewish and this was accepted by the Emir Faisal
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David J Feiger USA,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
Thus Israel was actually established in 1920 but called Palestine. This was sabotaged by the British who did not want the reconstitution of the Jewish Commonwealth. In 1922 Churchill illegally divided the Jewish Homeland at the Jordan river and gave TransJordan to the Hashimite Clan with Amman as it's capital. This was the Clan that represented the Arab World, of the Clan and family of Mohammad. The guardians of the Holy Cities of Mecca and Medina and Arabia. In 1923 the Saudi Clan deposed the Hashimites with a violent Coup. In 1924 the Anglo American Convention the US respected Jewish Pal
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David J Feiger USA,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
The establishment of Jewish Sovereignty over all of CisJordan was established and became part of International Law in 1920 recognized as the Homeland Of The Jewish People in numerous treaties and official documents. In 1948 the UN had no legal authority to partition Palestine based on Britain's violation of it's mandate responsibilities in it's 1939 White Paper that the Mandate Oversight Committee declared illegal and void. In 1948 Jordan in a war of aggression occupied Judea, Samaria and East Jerusalem. In 1967 Israel liberated Jewish Territory..The Arabs occupy Jewish Land.
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Suzanne, Tel Aviv,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
Great logic Maverick - the 2 sides can't live peacefully in 2 seperate states but shoving them all together in 1 state is going to bring peace - Yeah sure.
Re Intifada 3 - what is wrong with that. If it is on the other side of the wall and makes the Pals happy, sure why not?
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Ivory Tower,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
Ziad, Israel will be prepared for peace when the time presents itself (i.e. 1993 Oslo Accords, 2000 Camp David II offer, 2005 disengagement, 2009 Olmert offer).
I think you have it backwards - it is the PA itself that is stalling! They could have a state now if they wanted (Olmert offered them basically everything possible in a two-state deal) but in the end they prefer to hold onto their extremist beliefs (Right of Return, etc.) than compromise!
In the end, you demonstrate the Palestinians feel no sense of responsibility to make peace and prefer to be forever the victim.
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Sharona Israel,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
The Second Intifada never ended. We stopped it in its tracks. #18-can't you see a stupid publicity stunt when you see one? Cyprus has declared that the ship stated its destination as Port Said Egypt. Liar Liar pants on fire! The cost of this stupid "voyage" is far beyond the value of the goods on the "small ship". Gazans use metal pipes for missiles instead of sewers. They should use their money to build luxury hotels on the beaches and employ their people. Silly me. It is always about destroying Israel, never about building or re-building Gaza!
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Avrohom - Israel,
Wednesday Jul 01, 2009
Pam Blunt #18, you need to spin the truth in rder to try to make a point that has no basis. Hamas declares war on us. They explicitly claim we have n right to exist and they will battle to the end, whatever that means. We are jsutified to take whatever measures we feel needed to protect our rights and to reduce risk. We have no obligation to biw down to an ex-congresswoman or any other malcontent who tries to deny us our rights to govern and exist. The way to bring supplies to Gaza is through legal means, not through illegal means. If Hamas thinks this is harsh, who cares. They are terrorists.
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Maverick US,
Thursday Jul 02, 2009
Suzanne,
The two sides are not under two distinct states at present. Have your forgotten that there is an occupation? Please stay with the facts and stop dreaming that two states already exist.
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Avrohom - Israel,
Thursday Jul 02, 2009
Ziad Khalil Abu Zayyad #23 - #25, thank you for your clarification. Now that you have established the basis for your ideas we have a place from which to start. Arabs have no expectation to pretend that all the wars you have waged against us, including 67 and afterwards, did not happen. There is no expectation that we will ever go back to 67 and simply start over. Your refugees are not our problem, you deal with them, just as we have managed the 1 million Jews expelled from Arab lands. Islam and Christian claims on Eretz Yisrael are revisionist. If you want peace, accept reality.
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Maverick US,
Thursday Jul 02, 2009
Vadim,
By your reasoning, one can apply this same argument to Israel that because of the presence of organized crime (e.g., mob rub outs), youth gang violence, and road rage the Israelis are childlike primitives living under the rule of nature. Such an attitude is equally as unrealistic as your assertion with regard to those who seek a peaceful solution. It makes no sense to accuse those who seek a rapprochement as having a racialist, paternalist bias towards the other party in this ongoing conflict..
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Let, Philippines,
Thursday Jul 02, 2009
Ziad, its no use writing empty threats to Israel as embodied in your comment on #24 and #25. Israel will never be afraid of tens (or thousands, if there is) of arab countries that it may offend as a result of how it treats arab terrorists in Palestine. You might just as well tell David to cower in fear when facing Goliath, though thats impossible to do now. One thing that Israelis cannot use as a weapon in achieving its objectives is hatred and utter disregard for humal lives which arab terrorists wont hesitate to use given the opportunity. The Jewish nation is not a doormat of this earth.
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Terry - Eilat, Israel,
Thursday Jul 02, 2009
You are all avoiding the issue - this is a zero-sum game & this is how the Arabs think of it. Israel has always avoided this definition of the conflict, wrongly I believe. Our differences with the Arabs are irreconcilble. The real issue is who wins. We made a mistake in 1948 by not expelling ALL of the Arabs from the new state. In 1967, we maded a similar mistake in Jerusalem, Gaza, & the West Bank - we should have expelled all the Arabs from the territories & blown up that damned mosque. We are now paying for those mistakes. Everything else is more or less BS.
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Terry - Eilat, Israel,
Thursday Jul 02, 2009
We Jews are generally liberal idiots who seek compromise, who are unwilling to use our resources to actually defeat our enemies, we have been brainwashed by leftist morons who believe self-destructive stupidity & see the world upside down & backwards. We listen to fools endlessly talk about ''peace'' & essentially, we have been talking to ourselves for over 60 years. Blah, blah, blah, it goes on & on. It has achieved nothing, worse, it has eroded our position on all fronts. By political correctness we ignore virtually all evidence as to the reality of this conflict.
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Terry - Eilat, Israel,
Thursday Jul 02, 2009
I have no illusions about the final goal (or should I say Final Solution) as envisaged by our Arab adversaries. Their idea of peace is our non-existence, there is no compromise, no concession, no agreement, no understanding, that will change that ultimate goal. Only one thing can change their thinking - total & unequivocal defeat. Defeat that removes the last shred of hope in victory. Most of us are not ready to support the measures that would lead to that outcome & so there will never be any peace. We will be lucky to even survive our own stupidity & unrealistic attitudes.
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Terry - Eilat, Israel,
Thursday Jul 02, 2009
and in case anyone is wondering why I think this way, it's because I come from an Arab country, I speak Arabic, & I know the Arab mentality inside & out. What would any Arab regime do to Palestinians? You all know the answer. They would crush them into the dust, use torture, murder, bomb the crap out of them, there would be no limit to what they would do. Just look at Iran today. That's Islamic democracy at work.
Now would I really recommend acting like this? No, of course not - despite my upbringing in an Arab country I didn't become a total savage. I'm just making a point.
44 |
Robert,
Thursday Jul 02, 2009
Until the Arabs stop wasting their energy playing victim and take responsibility for their past actions there is no chance for peace. There needs to be the same kind of introspection and self criticism in Arab society that there is in Israeli Jewish society. Once that happens and once the Arab recognize the legitimate historical and national rights of the Jewish people to their own state then there will be a real chance for peace, and not one moment sooner. Until then conflict management is the best we can do. And believe me, Arab intransigence hurts the Arabs more than the Jews.
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Avrohom - Israel,
Thursday Jul 02, 2009
Ziad Khalil Abu Zayyad #23 - #25, there is no reasonable expectation that we start over from the 67 cease fire lines. What kind of intellectual honest person accepts your premise that Israel should do a "do over". You attacked us before 67, you attcked us in 67 and you attacked us since 67. These are facts. 67 holds no magic date that we are obligated to adhere to an artificial date and pretend all is well. Your refugees are not our issue. They are refugees because you keep them bottled up. We incorporated the 1 million Jews kicked out of Arab countries. Be pragmatic or forget it.
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ralph shapiro toronto,
Thursday Jul 02, 2009
what a wonderful twisted rational for a failed leadership both secular and religious to keep power unto themselves while wasting, even killing, another generation. when they say power makes one mad this is the perfect current example.
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jonah Viet-Nam,
Friday Jul 03, 2009
"Tomorrow's...change" is no "Palestine" any more.For the "fair solution" clamored by the Arabs is the
destruction of Israel,no less.So it's either Israel or "Palestine".The remaining of the article is nothing but dithyrambic apology offered to pp0tus' p0licy of "change".Don't threaten "intifada",send it in.
48 |
ziad Khalil Abu Zayyad,
Friday Jul 03, 2009
Keep on thinking like this and you will only keep on getting more and more extreme people on the other side. However, neither Israel nor the Palestinians will have any other choice except for living in two states, with two capitals a West and East Jerusalem. Unless this is done then you will witness not only a third intifada but wars which will not be in the size of Lebanon's war or even seventies war with the Egyptians. This is a conflict which is sensitive and important for all its sides...Do not dream of taking everything and leaving the other side with nothing because this will turn on u.
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Avrohom - Israel,
Sunday Jul 05, 2009
Zaid, it is you who dream of taking everything and leaving the other side with nothing. This is the explicitly stated goal of much of the Islamic and Arab world. It is the only reason why the conflict ever started and why it keeps going. It is you who needs to be pragmatic. The problem is the notion of compromise is not in the Arab lexicon. As such, Arabs use revisionist history to reinvent all conflicts once there is a resolution. People of intellectual honest and integrity apprach life in a different manner. Your threats will not pursuade us to abandon our eternal homeland.
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Ziad Khalil Abu Zayyad,
Monday Jul 06, 2009
Dear Avrohom...I am sorry if you considered my words a threat. Indeed i agree with you that the Arabs must compromise exactly as i ask from Israelis to start thinking of compromising. I am completely against violence and more intifadas...I am not saying that Intifada brought us any benefit...Instead it destroyed us more and more...us and the other side...Therefore i am searching for a solution that would prevent more violence and bring more benefits for both sides. Israel and the Palestinians must admit the right of each other to live in peace. Violence and wars bring disasters for both peoples
51 |
Avrohom - Israel,
Monday Jul 06, 2009
Zaid, you wrote (and implicitly supported), "The Arab Peace Initiative entails an Israeli withdrawal from the 1967 occupied lands, East Jerusalem as a capital of a future Palestinian state, and a fair solution for the Palestinian refugees' case. This position leaves no room for compromise. The Saudi initiative is a non-starter. Arabs must come to grips, publically, that the conflict continues because of Arab unwillingness to accept Israel, the state of the Jewish people, and that they no longer hold that position. Unitl then, why should we increase our risks? Else, Arab aggression continues.
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Ziad khalil Abu Zayyad,
Monday Jul 06, 2009
Avrohom, If true intentions are found on both sides then it will be possible to negotiate evry issue of these mentioned in the API. You believe that Arabs have no true intentions toward peace. I believe that the Israeli leadership has n intentions at all towards a real peace too. The aggression is found in the Israeli policy..Only months ago Israel killed 1500 people in Gaza; eighty percent of them were civilians. No side is better than the other..I am sure that Saudi Arabia and many other Arab countries want peace and relation with Israel but not with the current israeli policy and beliefs.
53 |
tom, toronto canada,
Tuesday Jul 07, 2009
this article posits that israel only wants to manage the conflict, rather than settle it. but as golda meir said: "it takes two to make peace and only one to make war".
the arabs, led by the arab league, have said "no" to peace over and over again. in fact, they have said "no" to israel's very existence. and they used the arab refugees from palestine to fight this war for them - israel didn't build the refugee camps. have they changed?
in fact, israel didn't start the intifada - arafat did, after years of incitement and preparation, not for peace but for war. he just needed an excuse.
54 |
Avrohom - Israel,
Tuesday Jul 07, 2009
Ziad khalil Abu Zayyad, you are funny. The Gaza battle was not Israeli aggression. When Arabs stop attacking us there will be no need for defensive measures required to stop terrorists. Let's look at more facts. Israel has come to agreements with Jordan, Egypt (2 times), and has left Lebanon and Gaza in the hopes of peace, while taking great risk. Arabs refuse to accept our existence as a Jewish state, which it is by definition, and have attacked us since 48. Facts show our willingness to accept great risk for peace, and no compromise form Arabs other than Egypt and Jordan. Facts.
55 |
Avrohom - Israel,
Tuesday Jul 07, 2009
Ziad, if you are truly looking for a solution, it must start with an explicit recognition of Israel, as a Jewish state, on our homeland. Without this the Arab position is not grounded in the most basic of assumptions; we are here, this is our land, and we cann all live side by side. Until this is stated without hesitation, the Arab position is suspect. We have put ourselves at great risk time after time. And for what? Each time Arabs take our concessions as weakness and an opportunity to creep ever closer with weapons and terror. Enough already. If Arabs cannot do this, they are not serious.
56 |
Ziad Khalil Abu Zayyad,
Wednesday Jul 08, 2009
Avrohom...it would be better to stop my discussion with you at this point...Killing 1500 Palestinians is not funny...Indeed considering this funny is ignorance..Israel made the steps you talked about only when it was under force pressure from the other side and not because of its good intentions towards peace...Hezbullah..Hamas..the war with Egypt and the FEAR...not true intentions...As for me and the majority of the Arabs..You ll never get a recognition of a JEWISH Israel without admitting the right of the other side to live with dignity...Israel ignored the international law,
57 |
Ziad Khalil Abu Zayyad,
Wednesday Jul 08, 2009
and keeps on ignoring it by building a racist wall....unlawful settlements which the whole world now is against it, imprisoning 11000 Palestinians, and trying to turn and change the situation as if it is over and Israel is ruling...Well guess what..History taught us that nothing stays as it is...I am sure one day the Israeli people and even the Palestinian people will become wiser and get rid of all of those who just want to see more violence and want to live while the others suffer... Open your mind and try to learn more about the other side....This is what i am doing!...Take Care.
58 |
Avrohom - Israel,
Wednesday Jul 08, 2009
Ziad, only you interpreted my words to mean that 1,500 is funny. If this is indicative of your intellectual capability I am sorry for you. In case you did not notice, the barrier has decreased significantly the number of terror attacks on us. It is a good thing for everybody. Your comments about Isael acting only when forced to do so is simply not born out by facts. Facts, Ziad, seem to kee getting in your way. It is Arabs who keep yur brethren in situation without dignity. You expelled 700,000 Jews and we accepted them. Arabs use you as pawns, not us. Again, these are facts.
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Avrohom - Israel,
Wednesday Jul 08, 2009
Ziad, (continued) Israel was founded legally as the Jewish state, aside from the inarguable Jewish eternal homeland. There is no argument that this is Jewish land and that Arabs and other outsiders had opportunity to occupy it through conquest. Aside from that, the legal international declaration is Israel is the Jewish state. So your objection is another act of aggression. You ask me to open my mind. It is very open. We have waited since 48 for you to do the same. Our agreements with Egypt twice and Jordan were not from fear or from coercion. This is propaganda and not supported by fact.
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Ziad Khalil Abu Zayyad,
Thursday Jul 09, 2009
Avrohom..I really feel sorry for you. Think in the way you want to think and act in the way you want to act..I respect your right in expressing the way you see this land and to who it belongs. As for me and most of the Palestinians, We agreed on admitting Israel's right in existence and living on one condition that we get the same recognition..As long as Israel denies this, i have to deny what you call a "Jewish Land"..it is a land that was taken by force and must be devided between these two peoples to find peace. I still believe that both peoples are equal and BOTH of them must compromise.
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Avrohom - Israel,
Thursday Jul 09, 2009
Ziad, Israel is only party willing to compromise. Jordan 'stole' your land from you, and then lost it to Israel when we were forced to defend ourselves. We never 'stole' land from you. The reason your people are not given a state is because you, and your Arab brethren, have both explicilty failed to recognize our right to exist and have demanded unrealistic demands. The hold up if from you, not from us. We are not expected to put ourselves at greater risk to protect your 'rights' when you explicitly and implicitly deny us ours. We have compromised and you have not. We wait. You only complain.
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Avrohom - Israel,
Friday Jul 10, 2009
Ziad, nobody is stopping your people from having a country but you and your own brethren. We never took our land by force excpet to establish it in 48 when your people tried to deny us our eternal and legal rights to our country. Go ahead and try to argue it. You cannot. In 67 we were attacked. If you call defending ourselves as taking land by force then you do not understand language. You have been the aggressor since 48, not us. We do not need you to acknowledge Israel as Jewish, becuase it is Jewish by definition. If you want US to meet you more than half way, you have to acknowledge "US".
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Ziad Khalil Abu Zayyad,
Saturday Jul 11, 2009
It is not Jewish by definition..However, I respect your right in expressing what you believe in. Hope that you change your way in looking at things. I can argue with you with information which claims what you are claiming on the basis of my background sources. However, i am not really interested in this. Have a nice day.
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Avrohom - Israel,
Sunday Jul 12, 2009
Ziad, of course Israel is Jewish by defintion. It always was Jewish and does not change by the whims of mankind, or the wars of conquerers or through the passing of time. There are no background sources that refute this. But it is interesting that you did not offer any argument to the core points of the posts. Have a nice day to you, as well.
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Jean - Georgia,
Saturday Jul 25, 2009
When exactly did the previous infitada end?? Arabs have the same freedom as everyone else in the State of Israel, they can leave if unhappy. They left before in 1948, and many of the returnees (and many many others) came only for the job opportunities provided by the Jews building a country out of a wasteland. The PLO charter hasn't changed, just like a leopard doesn't change it's spots. Israel would be foolish to believe that the PLO would be happy with "East" Jerusalem or any other settlement terms, and its infantile to suggest that this lack of trust By Israel is unwarranted.
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Jean - Georgia,
Saturday Jul 25, 2009
And on the subject of the so-called returnees...the King of Jordan is really really smart. As long as he keeps Jordan out of the 20th century (except for him and his family), who in their right mind would settle there. So they go to Israel where there is some opportunity. How would you fare in Jordan? And if the PLO hadn't stashed the billions of dollars given to them over the past 30 years, there would be even more opportunity instead of bloodshed.
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