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Tuesday Feb 03, 2009
Rethinking 'recognized conversions' Posted by Rabbi Seth (Shaul) Farber
Comments: 27
Israel's immigration policy needs some serious rethinking, particularly if critical decisions are left in the hands of clerks. While the law of return allows Jews - both those born Jewish and those who converted - to immigrate to Israel and receive citizenship automatically, it does not specify the threshold for proving one's Jewishness. While much has been written about this (see for example the NY Times article from last March), there is little question that the State has to rely on recognized Jewish communities abroad for Jewishness certification. In recent months, I have encountered a new problem - staggering in its implications. It seems that no one is quite sure how to define the term "recognized Jewish community." I know this sounds like a joke, but it isn't. While I would argue that Jews for Jesus communities or messianic Jewish communities shouldn't go recognized be the State for purposes of aliyah, a Supreme Court decision from 1988 clearly recognizes - for purposes of aliyah - the legitimacy of the Orthodox, Conservation and Reform Movement. Letters of Jewishness and conversions performed by these movements go recognized by the State. What has happened in recent months that worries me is the definition of "an Orthodox community." ITIM has recently gotten hold of a letter sent by the "Population, Immigration and Border Authority," of the Interior Ministry that states clearly that an Orthodox conversion performed overseas was not acceptable to the State for purposes of aliyah because the chief rabbi [of Israel] did not recognize the conversion as legitimate. Essentially, the State's civil authorities have decided to sublimate the definition of the "recognized" communities - at least in the Orthodox sphere - to the Chief Rabbi. Now, I don't believe that Conservative and Reform converts need worry - for the moment - that they are not eligible for immigration under the Law of Return. Ironically, it is Orthodox converts, who have cause to worry. In recent years, the chief rabbinate has pared down to a handful the rabbis in North America who can perform conversions which they will certify. Is it conceivable that the State of Israel relies on the major Reform and Conservative rabbinical bodies to determine "recognized" communities, but that when it comes to the Orthodox, the chief rabbi is the final arbiter? Apparently so! When ITIM turned to the Ministry of Interior for clarification regarding its policies toward immigrants, we received a letter stating that "we relate to conversions performed overseas by each of the denominations with identical criterion." That letter is written by the same office that wrote that the Chief Rabbi didn't recognize the legitimacy of an Orthodox rabbinical court. I think that the State has to begin to review who it trusts and whom it doesn't trust in the diaspora. If Israelis to be the State of the Jews, then our understanding of the Jewish people has to be wider than the definition provided by a bunch of clerks.
1 |
Rabbi Andy Sacks,
Thursday Feb 05, 2009
Rabbi Farber writes: Now, I don't believe that Conservative and Reform converts need worry - for the moment - that they are not eligible for immigration under the Law of Return. Ironically, it is Orthodox converts, who have cause to worry.
Indeed, by decision of the Israeli High Court for Justice (Supreme Court) conversions performed by Masorti/Conservative rabbis outside of Israel, ( Reform rabbis too) are recognized by the State of Israel. Individuals who have been converted by a Conservative Beit Din outside of Israel may make Aliya under the Law of Return and be registered as Jewish.
2 |
Katz NYC,
Sunday Feb 08, 2009
The Reform and Conservative movements are always crying for "separation of synagogue and state" except when the state's intervention in religious affairs proves favorable to them.
3 |
David, USA,
Sunday Feb 08, 2009
This is in essence the problem with a religious state or an apartheid state. What is the acceptable religion, what is the acceptable race? What practices or DNA is acceptable? What genome does the orthodox approve? In the US, we had that problem once. In South Africa, they too ran into difficulties. Question - While certain categories of "Jews" can return to the homeland, recently deplaced palestinians cannot. Help me understand...
4 |
Joel Katz - Religion and State in Israel,
Sunday Feb 08, 2009
Rabbi Farber,
Could you explain ITIM: The Jewish Life Information Center's position regarding the Ministry of Interior and the Rabbinate.
Who should be deciding whether a convert belongs to a "recognized Jewish community".
thank you,
Joel Katz
[ Link to page ] /
5 |
Carol - Las Vegas Nevada,
Sunday Feb 08, 2009
AND, how long will this be the case? As a Jew convered by a Conservative rabbi, and committed to my Jewish community, having proved my commitment to my community, and who loves Israel and plans to live in Israel eventuarlly, it is frightening as some in Israel say I am not a Jew and the State should not recognize it. That is the scary thing about democracy . . . .
6 |
Don Radlauer, Alfei Menashe,
Sunday Feb 08, 2009
Of course, the fact remains that non-Orthodox converts, even though they are allowed to make Aliyah, serve in the IDF, and so on, cannot be married in Israel without undergoing a re-conversion. This hardly seems fair: they're good enough to die for their country, but not good enough to get married!
7 |
Adam, USA,
Monday Feb 09, 2009
I don't understand why any gentile would want to convert through the reform or conservative movements, anyway. Those synagogues have their place for natural born Jews who want to embrace something of their cultural identity, but they're not really there for religious experience. Their rabbis say they believe in God but they also deny that God ever literally revealed Himself to us. That doesn't make sense. If you think of Torah as written by man, you have to be an agnostic, because proof of God's existence is predicated on the Bible actually being revelation. Otherwise, where's the proof?
8 |
Lienboi Gangte,
Monday Feb 09, 2009
Yes, if Israel is a State of the Jews, orthodox or Messianic, lost or found, every Jew must fit in! If there can be leftist and rightist in the political setup, then why not in religion too? As a lost, but now found, Jew I think my Messianic faith should and can not be the diciding factor on wether I am a Jew or not.
9 |
Joseph, London,
Monday Feb 09, 2009
What's most surprising about this state of affairs is that after the Chief Rabbi tried to reject mainstream American Orthodox conversions, his own Rabbinical High Court tried to undermine the official Israeli conversion authority's Orthodox conversions. If the Chief Rabbinate ever gets its international conference on agunot they should also make a basic guideline on conversions.
10 |
Jeani, Kent,
Monday Feb 09, 2009
Re: Adam
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11 |
Rafael Fabius, Montevideo, Uruguay,
Monday Feb 09, 2009
I think I've already said this in other comments...we are not precisely the most-loved pople in the world. If anybody wants to join us, and shows their commitment, be it for beliefs, for being able to marry, or to be able to make Aliyah...I, for one, would give them my blessing. And if they follow the Reformist, Masorti (conservative) or Orthodox ways, as long as they do not try to force upon the rest of us their particular way of thinking, well, I'd welcome them to the tribe. I'm most likely to believe differently from them, but we are a free pople.
12 |
Mark Stein USA,
Monday Feb 09, 2009
It's common sense. The only Jews who should decide what's kosher are Jews who keep kosher as a matter of religious imperative.
13 |
samuel,
Monday Feb 09, 2009
May interest you
14 |
Michael,
Monday Feb 09, 2009
The problem could be solved by amending the Law of Return to grant a "green card" to anyone who self-defines him/herself as a Jew. At the end of 3 years, that person would be called for military/national service. If the oleh complies, s/he would become a citizen, with his nationality listed as Jewish. Only if he is not eligible for service on other grounds (age, physical profile, etc.) would his nationality become dependent upon his religion, and then the rabanut could have its shot at definition.
15 |
Stephen Hughes Soda Springs US,
Monday Feb 09, 2009
I will just stay a Noahide ..
16 |
Bill, USA,
Tuesday Feb 10, 2009
Rabbi
Can you post this letter or a link to it! I believe it is important to actually see this letter sent by the "Population, Immigration and Border Authority," of the Interior Ministry.
17 |
yochanan, chicago,
Tuesday Feb 10, 2009
The Lubavitcher Rebbe got to to heart of the issue. A Jew is someone born of a Jewish MOTHER or converted according to HALACH. Halacha is Jewish Law.
The Torah is the defining document for the Jewish people as it is G-d's will and wisdom.the confusion about our National identity is directly related to our straying from the Torah.
The sooner the State of Israel, in the Jewish homeland of Eretz Yisrael, returns to the Torah definition of who is a Jew, the sooner the Jewish people can get on with the business of what it means to be the Jewish people.
18 |
Jeani, Kent,
Tuesday Feb 10, 2009
Is there any post at all of posting when posts can be edited to within an inch of their lives?
My post has been edited and yet my name is up but the body of the post isn't.
Could someone tell me what was so offensive about my post? Or at least be good enough to delete the whole thing and not just leave my name there floating in cyberspace.
I am grossly offended.
19 |
Michael,
Tuesday Feb 10, 2009
No, Yochanan, the Torah is not Jewish Law. It is Jewish RELIGIOUS law. Many have died, not for Torah, but for being part of the Jewish ethnos, regardless if they were Halachically Jewish or not. The prophets berated JEWS who worshipped false gods. They had no problem with Canaanim who prayed to baal. Matityahu killed a JEW who bowed down to a Greek idol. He had no problem with a Greek doing the same. Clearly, Jew is a national, not religious identity.
The State of Israel is a secular institution. It shouldn't be permitted to measure anybody's tzitziot or enforce Jewish RELIGIOUS law.
20 |
Adam, USA,
Wednesday Feb 11, 2009
It just seems to me that if there was never a Holocaust, never a single instance of anti-semitism ever, Jews would still be Jews. Jews are not defined by being targeted or dying as a group or being a part of an "ethnos." Jews are defined by Torah. If there was never a Torah given to us, there would be no "us." If there was never a Holocaust, we'd still be Jews. But if there were no Torah, we wouldn't be Jews. It's the ENTIRE basis of Jewry. I'm very sorry that modern Jewry wants to redefine our basis to something that it empirically isn't.
21 |
Avrohom - Israel,
Wednesday Feb 11, 2009
Michael, Torah is the only basis for any law regarding Jews, period. It is not our concern how others define us or apply their own rules for dealing with the Jews. But for Jews, the only thing that defines and creates a Jew is Torah. And Torah is the only place any Jewish law is derived. Any other source is nonsense.
22 |
Michael,
Thursday Feb 12, 2009
If it is the Torah that defines us, who were all those slaves that G-d freed in Egypt? Who stood at Har Sinai while we were waiting for Moshe, and who built the golden calf? According to Torah, we were already a nation (ethnos) when we left Egypt, before we received the Torah. Anti-Semitism has nothing to do with it.
Mixing secular with religious law is a mistake. Secular law in a democracy is always the result of compromise. Religious law, since it is from G-d, cannot be subject to compromise. For this reason, the very idea of religious political parties is inherently Hillul haShem.
23 |
Rhonda from Florida,
Friday Feb 27, 2009
Why is it that secular jews, communist jews, or any other are allowed Aliyah, but my family, which has been DNA tested and matches the Cohen modal, cannot immigrate to Israel because we are Messianic converts to Christianity. I just wonder if the next Hitler will overlook our Jewish DNA? Was not the main idea behind the new Israeli state to protect ALL Jews from the next (inevitable) pogram?
24 |
Cember,
Monday Mar 02, 2009
To Rhonda (#23) Because there is great confusion as to whether to be Jewish means to be part of a religion or part of an ethnos. Until the Roman dispersion, there was no such problem. We were a nation. After the dispersion, the religion took the place of the state, and conversion substituted for the naturalization process. Hence the halakhic definition of a Jew as EITHER an hereditary "citizen" or as one who has become naturalized by conversion. Conversion to another religion thus becomes a renunciation of citizenship. The Rabanut doesn't recognize the state's authority to change that.
25 |
Javier Spain,
Saturday May 16, 2009
Me as a person throughout a conversion process, I do consider that this is an issue which must be clarified very soon an strongly inside all the spectrum of jews communities. Up to me it is very sad to see so many branches with their own interepretation on Halacha, therefore with their own differences while instead to waste a time to look for an Interpretation of The Torah which could allow to bring different interpretations into an Unity, an Unified and like a holistical viewpoint on The Torah. Living together The Torah from different levels of Concieusness.
26 |
Michal, Queens,
Friday May 22, 2009
I have a blog ( [ Link to page ] /) and I "own", as Yahoo calls it, a discussion group for women converts and conversion candidates. So, I read a lot about conversion and really stay up on what's current, despite the fact that I've already been to the mikvah waters.
As far as I know, one can make aliyah but not be married or buried in Israel.
Adam #7, Some people convert non-ortho because if they are not in New York City that is what they find. Some people have Jewish fathers and grandfathers. #11, a lot of Converts don't see the hate.
27 |
Michal, Queens,
Friday May 22, 2009
Additionally, Rabbi Farber, you might be interested. What's coming back to me from my girls is that many of the old baytai dayanim appear to not be doing conversions. I've heard that in Brooklyn and Queens they are being told there are no WORKING baytai dayanim in their boro. They are sent to RCA central. Whereas a year ago, baytai dayanim in Queens and Brooklyn were still functioning. However, your online ITIM list is not reflecting this.
Also, I was wondering. There is this whole RCA vs. EJF thing going on. Can you comment on that? Who is valid in Israel right now? Can you post on it?
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