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Thursday Nov 26, 2009
The disenfranchisement of converts can't continue Posted by Rabbi Seth Farber
Comments: 39
Imagine you are stopped by a policeman in Jerusalem, who demands to see your driver's license. While you wait in your car, he goes and checks your record and then comes back to your car. "I'm sorry," he says. "Your license was issued in Tel Aviv. It isn't valid here. We're impounding your car." Sound unrealistic? It isn't. At least not when it comes to conversion. There are more than ten rabbinates in Israel that refuse to open marriage files for men and women who converted through the Israeli rabbinate. Soldiers who have dedicated there best years to this country and have transformed their lifestyles to become observant are being told that their conversions are worthless. Having studied and focused on Jewish life, having passed through the conversion courts, and having waited to receive their conversion certificates, these soldiers cannot marry in Israel. Are we reverting back to the third world? Denying converts basic rights as Jews goes against Israeli law and against Jewish tradition. The Torah is very clear on the way to treat converts, recognizing their vulnerability. And yet, rabbis representing the Orthodox establishment are not being sanctioned for dismissing all of Israeli conversion in toto. In Rechovot, the marriage registrar sends every convert who has a conversion certificate from the State of Israel to a rabbinical court for "certification." This is outrageous. In Rishon LeZion, the clerks open marriage files for converts and send rabbis to perform marriages. But the Ashkenazi chief rabbi won't sign their marriage licenses. In at least three cases I have been involved in, couples had to open marriage files at a different rabbinate - following their ceremonies - to get an official marriage license of the state. And in Ashkelon, the marriage registrar simply won't open files for any convert. Simply incomprehensible. The Israeli taxpayer is paying the salaries of the conversion authority to convert people, and also paying the salaries of the marriage registrars to not recognize those conversions. The Jewish people are paying an even greater price. Because of a few zealots, converts who ought to be embraced are being further disenfranchised. This cannot be allowed to continue. In the coming weeks, ITIM will bring this issue to the Israeli Supreme Court, in an effort to force the marriage registrars to follow the law and register converts. But it is really up to the Jewish people to cry out and say "no more." We need to redouble our efforts to encourage those who converted to be part of our communities and engage them as full members of the Jewish experience.
1 |
LF UK,
Thursday Nov 26, 2009
The evaluation of conversions happens under other jurisdictions too. Several years ago my children ans I underwent othodox conversion in Canada. We then came to live in the UK and I was advised to have my conversion 'validated' by the London Beth Din. This was donethrough interview with me and inquieries with the conversion authorities in Canada. Once this was done, I was given a letter confirming the recognition of the conversion. Subsequently my children married both in London, Israel and America and this letter was invaluable in facilitating the marriages. Perhaps all converts should copy.
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David Gleicher, Jerusalem,
Thursday Nov 26, 2009
You wrote that this disenfranchisement can't continue. Of course it can. We have a government that is in thrall to the haredim, and just doesn't care. But you can be sure that if a minister's son wanted to marry a gioret, there would be no questions asked about her religiosity. Five years ago, on Pesach, at Ramot Resort, you said, "I don't want to fight with the rabbinate, I want to work with them." I whispered to my wife, "Just wait, within a few years, he'll want to strangle all of them." I wasn't far off. Good luck. ITIM is a much-needed organization in this religiously 3rd-world country.
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moron galut,
Thursday Nov 26, 2009
the liscense of the state-with approval of chief rabbinae-should be conclusive--conversions not halachic by traditional standards should not be recognized whether or not reform and conservative like it--let them conform...also haredi should not raise exta questions or be paid by state to do it
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Leonard Atlas, San Francisco, USA,
Thursday Nov 26, 2009
Balagan, what else is new, like most things in Israel. The time is well overdue to clean up the mess.
I fully agree with Rabbi Farber, in case of bonified conversions made in good faith and in relience on official rabbinical authority. In the absence of a uniform conversion practice and state beaurocracy
complience, civil marriage law is sure to follow, and the Rabinate will loose all its authority, at least ove rmarriages.
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Leonard Oberstein Baltimore,
Thursday Nov 26, 2009
I agree with half of what you write. You lost me when you want to coerce rabbanim to go against their honest beliefs of what halacha requires. Just because a rabbi is paid, doesn't mean that he is a pupet. If you were a rabbi in a shul and the president said you would be fired if you didn't go against halacha, would you violate your beliefs? The rabbis have a different understanding but they are not just ignorant primatives, they are following the guidance of greater rabbis.
The real problem is that the official rabbinate is no longer populated by great rabbis like Rabbi Herzog or Kook. I
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Paul in Philadelphia,
Friday Nov 27, 2009
Go ahead- laugh off what I say and assume the money and support from America will keep on flowing. I'm an American conservative Jew, visited Israel years ago, bought the bonds and wrote the letters to congressmen demanding that they send the tank or whatever it was that was needed in Israel on a plane instead of a slow boat. Now you openly insult MY president, and tell me that me and my wife may not be "Jewish enough" to live there. I have about had it. You your own way- you won't get any more money of support from me! Paul in Philadelphia
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pm,
Friday Nov 27, 2009
Youe right the situation shouldn't continue. We must replace the current irresponsible conversion courts with ones that will follow the universally held opinion that a convert must accept to follow all mitzvos.
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John, Canada,
Friday Nov 27, 2009
Im often opposed to Israeli actions in many topics, like the Palestinian question. But one thing I admire about your state was its open door policy for Jews of all regions, and all ways of life. Its a powerful idea, and a just thing. It loses much of its meanings if Jews are discriminated upon because of their country of origin, their skin color, or how they became Jews at all. This idea is your strength and your legitimacy. Embrace all Jews, dont let the ultra-orthodox views dictate to Israel who is a Jew.
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AYbA, Israel,
Friday Nov 27, 2009
The right to question conversions is valid, rather to accept an arbitrary action or ruling based upon mistrust and suspected unobservance BY a public servant is the bottom line question. The Rabbinut are only upholding their own reputatuions, which is fair and legal when signing any contract (ketuba). The problem is that if I apply for marriage and my observance is suspect then a civil servant-middleman can decide my fate, NO WAY. First delete this insidious middleman from the system to ensure fairness and the credibility will then be in the hands of the Jew-convert before a Be'-Dina
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David Columbia, Maryland USA,
Friday Nov 27, 2009
Once again, the simple solution to this problem is to allow civil marriage in Israel. All Rabbis could be recognized and all streams of Judaism would be accepted (or not). Conversions would be private or public and ultimately it wouldn't matter what one group did or didn't think. Israel would finally become a country for all the Jewish people and the disgrace of forcing some Israelis to leave the country to simply get married or have a normal life would finally end. Judaism could go back to being a religion instead of a "power structure". Israel should learn from the diaspora on this one!
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Moishe in Frederick, MD,
Friday Nov 27, 2009
Oy! Conversions that are halachic should be recognized carte blanc, as long as they are done through a proper beis din. When you politicize or trivialize the conversion process and subsequent adherence to halacha, you put Judaism in the same class as (some) other religions.
OTOH, people making a sincere effort to live a Jewish life and raise their kids as jews should not be marginalized either.
What you run the risk of when you trivialize the conversion process or involvement in Jewish customs and halacha is movement to other religions or hybrid faiths.
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MIchael Greenberg,OTTAWA CANADA,
Friday Nov 27, 2009
THe TORAH never gave ANY RABBIS the authority to rule on any "LAW" ....The STATE makes the civil laws per Israeli Democracy and RELIGIOUS LAW should be ruled by a BET DIN of elected members of ALL Israeli Jewish society-they not only don't need to be rabbis-THEY SHOULD NOT BE RABBIS....However all RABBIs should be licensed as such by the STATE-else they cannot leglaly perform marriages ..The STATE then should defer any dispute about Jewishness to the BET DIN (made up of a wide cross section of Israeli Jews) for resolution.,then once approved,rabbis cannot
refuse to marry them.
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d. stange bayview texas,
Saturday Nov 28, 2009
3 conversions later and the ashkenzi or orthodox won't call me a Jew I am a Jew they are not.
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DavidC WA USA,
Saturday Nov 28, 2009
"converted through the Israeli rabbinate"
Define that, rabbinate IN Israel or rabbinate OF the State? If its conversions like I see here in US, more power to them, Id kick them out TOO. If its OU, then whats the problem except its by the State and not the religious authority?
The pressure here is to convert women, not men, and homosexuals.
"THe TORAH never gave ANY RABBIS the authority to rule on any "LAW""
Kudos for perception of the truth. No substitute for the Sanhedrin.
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Frederick of Alexandria,
Saturday Nov 28, 2009
As a person who is Jewish only in his heart and not recognized by any human "authority" I am amazed that there would be such strict application of some human law that will not acknowledge love between a man and a woman who marry. Such laws cannot be recognized by the Creator who gives His love to all of humanity, not only a select few who think of themselves as somehow special.
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dan karsch, MD tucson, az,
Saturday Nov 28, 2009
to #6 (paul in philadelphia):
i believe your stance is a complete cop-out. why haven't you been to israel for "several years?" compare your strategy of deserting israel, and in my opoinion the jewish people, with that of the orthodox rabbi farber who has made aliya and is fighting the corruptness of the sysytem. it is clear to me whom i admire more and is having a greater impact.
as a fellow conservative jew, i submit that you should rethink your approach. israel needs the support of all jews and just as importantly, you need israel.
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Liora,
Saturday Nov 28, 2009
@ #16 - dan karsch, MD tucson: You cannot have it both ways. Paul is right. Why should he continue to fight for a nation of people who reject he and his wife? I do not understand you - why do you think that Paul should support Israel when Israel spits in the face of her friends and children? Israel cannot continue to bite the hands of those who love her then complain when they leave Her! The entire matter should be out of the hands of rabbis. DavidC made a comment about the Sanhedrin - he's right! There should be ONE authority in this matter - not however many rabbis there are in the nation.
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Colin Beck, Surrey, B.C., Canada,
Saturday Nov 28, 2009
PSALM 118:26 ''Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD.'' The Catholic church abandoned the NAME of the LORD in 325 A.D. [Rev. 2:12-16] The NAME of the father, the son, and Holy Ghost, is Jesus. [Acts 2:38] --- the pope of Rome + the emperor Constantine and the aristocracy + the bank of Italy = wealth accumulation + the 1,000 year reign of the Holy Roman Empire. The Dark Ages began after 325 A.D. 100 years later the barbarians conquered Italy and left the country in a shambles for the next 500 years. Jerusalem lost its NAME 100 years after 70 A.D. and Islam came 500 years later.
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Rafi from Zichron,
Sunday Nov 29, 2009
The ultimate contradiction is this -- Haredim do not serve in the IDF, even though there are many "jobs" within the IDF that would not even require that they use weapons. Converts and non-halalic Jews risk and give up their lives in the IDF to protect the State of Israel and the right of the blessed ones (Haredim) to live their blessed life in Jerusalem... yet in many cases, the state refuses to even recongnize them as Jews. If that is not disenfranchisement, what is?
Then there is the issue of curruption of the religious establishment in Israel...
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rabbi j d s antwerp,
Sunday Nov 29, 2009
it is about time Rabbi Farber wrote the trueth as to why truly Orthodox Rabbis will not accept the conversions of certain Beth Dins. since he wishes to hide the the reason i am forced to tell you all.
The Tora given by G-D states that a only conversion with intention to fully observe all the commandments can be considerd a conversion, anything less is Not a conversion and the person is not Jewish!!! it is agreat shame on the Beth Din to tell the person he is Jewish when in actuel fact he or she are NOT. he should address his complaints to the right Adresse.
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Religious Jew,
Sunday Nov 29, 2009
Re Comment 20: The Torah says no such thing, and thousands of years of Jewish tradition also do not. Though some great rabbis of old took a strict stance on converts, others were liberal, allowing conversions - both "b'dieved" and even "l'chatchila" - to people who did not intend to observe all mitzvot. Therefore, rabbis today can choose which tradition to follow, and unfortunately, the leaders have decided to go even further to the extreme than has ever been done before in history (except in very specific cases).
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pm,
Sunday Nov 29, 2009
#21 nonsense!!! The Talmud in Bechorot 31 clearly states that is one so much as rejects a single religious precept, even of Rabbinical origin, his conversion is not valid.
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pete,
Sunday Nov 29, 2009
Seth: imagine if Tel Aviv would issue driver's licenses without a driving test to anyone willing to pay the fee. Jerusalem would have no choice but to reject their validity.
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canberra,
Monday Nov 30, 2009
israel has reached an "ALTALENAH" point is the government sovereign or not .hareddim can organizes themselves as they want as for the rest fair go. ben garshon
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Ben,
Monday Nov 30, 2009
No one is saying that some Orthodox conversions approved by the Israeli rabbinate are automatically invalid. Some who underwent the conversion process raised questions about the validity of their conversions, so they are investigated more carefully whether there was acceptance of the yoke of the mitzvot at the time of the conversion. Mitzvah acceptance is generally considered a requirement for a halachic conversion. Rabbis performing a wedding where one partner was not Jewish would be negligent and law-breakers. See also [ Link to page ]
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aviva israel,
Wednesday Dec 02, 2009
This is why we are bound by halacha to discourage a person from wanting to convert to Judaism, it is a hard long road, with the only end being Moshiach. The Halacha is clear that a convert must follow all the mitzvot in the Torah (and Rabbinic) so what is the question? If they were sincere then they would convert through an authority on higher level (with greater requirments) and avoid the problem altogether. Our job is NOT to make it easy for converts to convert, it is to support them in their Jewish life and religious practise as a member of our nation once they have accepted the Torah.
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Mikey-reply to rabbi j d s antwerp, #20,
Wednesday Dec 02, 2009
Agreed that by all accepted halakhic definitions, conversion is valid only if the convert fully accepts the obligation of the yoke of Torah and mitzvot at the time of the conversion. However, the problem is, (1) there are many sincere converts who have undertaken kabbalat ol mitzvot, but different authorities simply don't acknowledge the legitimacy of the beit din that converted them, (2) even if G-d forbid, one converted by an Orthodox beit din abandons mitzvot, how can one know he didn't accept mitvzot AT THE TIME OF CONVERSION? But some rabbis "revoke" or annul these conversions! (Con'td)
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Mikey--reply to #20 from Antwerp (continued),
Wednesday Dec 02, 2009
So, yes, from an Orthodox, halakhic perspective, batei din and rabbis have the right to safeguard the authenticity of the conversion process by insisting on high standards from the convert in terms of Torah observance, agreed. But once the conversion is complete, it's out of their hands. Just like any Jew, the convert may lapse in the rigor of their observance to Judaism. If that happens, what authority is there to say the conversion was never valid from the get-go and the convert never sincerely desired to undertake observing the Torah's commandments?
Are they "Bohen klayot ve lev"?
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azahar, Switzerland,
Wednesday Dec 02, 2009
@26: it's not about making it easier for converts to convert. The question is who has the right to determine what interpretation of the Halacha is right. Modern Orthodox Rabbinic courts also believe that Halacha is binding and that converts have to observe all laws. And yet, Orthodox conversions are not always recognized by even more religious movements. Thus, who has the monopol on truth?The entire issue is not a religious one, but a purely political one.
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Ahavah,
Thursday Dec 03, 2009
The real "Truth" that #20 alludes to is that the UO and Chereidi Rabbis intend to use every weapon in their reach to de-legitimize every other sect of Judaism - even Modern Orthodox and Zionist - simply because they hate them, not because their choices are Halachically incorrect. There is no halachic requirement to live in the middle ages or accept the most stringent chumras. Those requirements are made up out of the thin blue air by racist power mongering control freaks who project their own OCD onto God and call it "Toirah."
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Stephen Hughes USA,
Thursday Dec 03, 2009
How many conversions must a convert go through , before he is just castrated ? The truth is you seek a paper to measure ones heart , In the final analysis nothing will ever be good enough for a converts conversion , because they are not really accepted . Like the step-child .
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azahar, Switzerland,
Thursday Dec 03, 2009
@#31: is this your personal experience? I think that there are people, also orthodox ones who really do accept converts. And not just that; they also let converts to be feel welcome. I think that it's simply a question of character. A person who has a strong faith doesn't feel threatned by the "intrusion" of converts, their opinions, experiences, criticism and culture of origin. They are proud of their tradition and culture and like to share it. What I am asking myself at times about people who don't accept converts is if they feel that we (the Jewish people) have too many friends...
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nachman Moshe, New York, USA,
Sunday Jan 03, 2010
Conversion to Judaism is a personal process between the person and G-d. When Avrohum became converted to the belief of the one G-d it was his character as a person that truly made him loved by Hashem. Don't forget, Hashem chose Avrohum to be a blessing to all humankind.Read chapter 18 in Bereishish, Vayeira poseks 17 thru 19. The key traits throughout the Torah is to be righteous and do justice to your fellow human and teach it to your children and those around you. Not rituals, save circumcision, or sacrifice but good character. When will the Jews and the world learn this most important truth?
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akiva Avrohum, Manhattan, NY,
Sunday Jan 03, 2010
I am sick, and so are many others, of the ultra orthodox Jews claiming they are in charge of halacha and who is a Jew and how they should live. No one has appointed them to take charge of anything. The orthodoxy is a modern day invention. Before the enlightment period circa 1800, there were religious Jews and secular Jews. Both groups had different degrees of observance within their numbers. Rabbinical Judaism began to take charge after the destruction of the Temple in 70 ad. They wanted to preserve the practices in the Temple and took over the functions of the Sanhedrin. Continued
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akiva Avrohum, Manhattan, NY,
Sunday Jan 03, 2010
continued - However, they proceeded to wrongly institute more and more rabbinical laws. They forgot that Hashem stated not to add or subtract from my commandments. They did not understand that the more laws instituted made it that much harder for Jews to follow. Hashem knew that too many laws would in fact lead to people not following them. Adam & Chava was given one commandment and they could not follow it. The nations were given the 7 Noachide laws and they could not keep them. Israel was given 10 commandments by G-d and they could not keep those. The Rabbis then deduced that there was 613 -
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akiva Avrohum, Manhattan, NY,
Sunday Jan 03, 2010
continued - commandments and those could not be kept properly. Then the Rabbis started to add Rabbinical halacha. Who knows how many laws are now to be followed? This has caused the non-observance of many laws and the destruction of Klal Yisroel. One Jew hating another because of differences of what being a Jew is. This is a true disgrace in the eyes of G-d. If we could have just followed the 10 commandments it would have been enough. Even then it would still have been to hard to follow for many but at least it would have been possible to observe them! Do what is right and just that is Torah!
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reuven, Tzvi - NY, USA,
Sunday Jan 03, 2010
Again we come across the matter of who is a Jew? The Rabbis say that the mother must be Jewish. The written Torah however seems to state that the child's religion is determined by the father. Example, Rechovim, Solomon's son, his mother was Naamah the Ammonite. A King of Israel who's mother was an Ammonite! This is really interesting. The Rabbis say she converted before she married King Solomon. But this is nowhere in the Torah. We also know that Solomon married many foreign women who did not convert. This is fact. It is obvious back then that the father determined what the child was. continued
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reuven, Tzvi - NY, USA,
Sunday Jan 03, 2010
Continued - But lets also talk about Zeporra, the wife of Moshe Rebbainu. Did she convert? Who converted her. Did Yisro her pagan Midyanite father convert her? Nowhere in the Torah does it say she was converted. So I guess Moshe Rabbainu married a goy and his children were not Jewish either? Lets get real here. Conversion is all about what is in the heart of the person that brings them into the covenant with G-d. Zeporra was the one who circumcised Eliazer on the way to Egypt because Moses did not and he would have died if not for her action. No man can determine who a Jew is. Only G-d can !
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sanford paris- cincinnati, Ohio, USA,
Wednesday Feb 03, 2010
Orthodoxy sounds like Jehovas Witnesses, in rationing who is suitable for the life, hereafter, or to just be Jewish. We were supposed to spread righteousness to the world. Part of the covenant. Who defined so narrowly to whom we could spread it? A person who wishes to participate in the Jewish idealogy and faith should not have to go through hoops to get there. It does and always has created emnity. Where is the graciousness and love for fellow man in the Orthodox soul? It hasn't changed since I was a young man raised in an orthodox family, who could only find anger and defensiveness..
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