 Tuesday Jul 14, 2009
The pretense of peace programs
Posted by Sherri Mandell
Comments: 57
    
Yoga for peace Is there any word more degraded than the word peace? Peace seems to be leaking all of its meaning, a catch word for getting money from the European Union (it seems that any co-existence group is ensured funding). The peacemakers seem to think if you bring Israelis and Palestinians together in the same room, then there will be peace. And the world apparently buys this idea. Oprah is going to run an article on a group of Israel and Palestinian women in a diet club. I am reminded of Peter, a man I met in East Hampton, New York who harangued me when he learned I was from Israel. "You people have to be in dialogue with the Palestinians. It's your fault that you don't have peace." When I asked him about himself, he admitted that he was living with a friend because his wife had kicked him out of the house. Peace is not achieved by proximity, by bringing people together to surf or talk or make movies. It isn't the joining of communities but the healing of individuals. My husband and I created an organization in memory of my son Koby who was viciously murdered by Palestinian terrorists when he was just 13. The Koby Mandell Foundation runs summer and holiday camps for 500 bereaved children whose loved ones were murdered by terrorists. I am often asked if we bring Palestinian victims as well. My response is incredulity. Our goal is to help children heal. Trauma experts like Dr. Alison Salloum of the University of South Florida report that after a trauma, a child needs a place with the presence of a supportive adult, who shares a positive hope filled perspective and provides the presence of routine and comfort, so that the child can begin to process the pain and find healthy expression of his grief and trauma. That is the structure our camp provides. In Hebrew the word 'peace', shalom, is related to the word for wholeness, shalem. A person becomes whole inside of himself, and his family, and then he is willing and able to go outside of himself, to make peace with others. But if he never feels that wholeness within himself, well then there can be no peace. Just bringing people together will never mend the holes. There's no gimmick, no quick fix that can achieve that. Yet people want to believe that if we Israelis only opened our arms a little wider, paraded down the street arms linked with Palestinians, we would have peace. Co-existence and dialogue do not create peace; peace is achieved when a person finds a way to transform pain into creativity, self-growth, and life- affirming transcendence. The goal of all of those peace loving folks who flock here should be to promote Palestinian efforts at healing their own community from the hatred and martyrdom that is too often honored in that society. Israel has been educating its people for peace since before Oslo. Only when the Palestinians begin doing the same - for example running summer camps aimed at healing the pain they have experienced - rather than the ones they operate now, (guerilla training for children), will there be a chance for peace. The Koby Mandell Foundation would be happy to advise them on how to set up their own healing initiatives.
1 |
Happy and Proud, U.S.,
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009
Thank you so much for writing these columns, Sherri. You and your entire family are truly among the brave and the righteous.
2 |
John, USA,
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009
What about the thousands of children killed by Jewish offensives, or denied a proper life with any prospects due to settlers like you who care only for their own good no matter what happens to those around them? How many children have been murdered by settlers Sherri? Do their mothers not grieve? Is their pain any less real or did they have any less right to their children? You talk about healing the pain they have experienced, but what about the ongoing pain caused by you? And you talked about segregation: How many arabs are allowed to live in the settlements or to see their ancient towns?
3 |
AKS, USA,
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009
"How many children have been murdered by settlers Sherri?"
Excellent question. Ms. Mandell should definitely answer it -- but I don't think the answer is going to be the one "John" is looking for.
4 |
John, USA,
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009
What answer do you think I am looking for AKS? It is something however that you should look up. There are victims on both sides. I will mention one:
"An 11-year-old child, Hilmeh Salim Shushah, from a village near Bethlehem, was allegedly beaten to death by the head of security of the nearby Israeli settlement of Betar, who accused him of throwing stones. A Palestinian witness said: "The settler came close to the boys and then started beating Hilmi with the butt of his rifle. He hit him four blows to the head and Hilmi collapsed." The settler was under arrest yesterday."
5 |
Elana,
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009
TO: John and Aks
The problem is that both of you are ignorant or in denial. These questions should be posed to the palastinians why there is no "peace". Olmert offered them 97% of the "territories" which Abbas refused. The "lack" of peace is not because of the "settlers" but rather the Palastinians themselves who do not want to comprise for a peaceful solution.
6 |
Peter,
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009
Sherri, thank you and Koby Mandell Foundation for noble actions. The word "peace" became a catch word used solely for getting money and public support. Dangerous and hostile actions are often covered by this word. How is it possible to make peace with half of Palestinians while the other half (under Hamas) is sworn to destroy Israel, and while those under Fatah are teaching hatred for Jews. Peace is not a one-sided action; both sides should agree to it, and if this is not the case then pressuring for peace and requiring good-will gestures from one side (Israel) is strongly biased and damaging.
7 |
Peter, Boston, USA,
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009
Sherri, thank you and Koby Mandell Foundation for noble actions. The word "peace" became a catch word used solely for getting money and public support. Dangerous and hostile actions are often covered by this word. How is it possible to make peace with half of Palestinians while the other half (under Hamas) is sworn to destroy Israel, and while those under Fatah are teaching hatred for Jews. Peace is not a one-sided action; both sides should agree to it, and if this is not the case then pressuring for peace and requiring good-will gestures from one side (Israel) is strongly biased and damaging.
8 |
David USA,
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009
Ms. Mandell - your son was murdered by barbarians. Just like the Hebron boy who was whisked into an alley and beaten to death for sport by barbarians - in this case by IDF barbarians "on patrol".. A crime not exposed by "most moral army" itself but by B'tselem. Ms. Mandell, one barbarity doesn't balance out another one - just know that there are such barbarians amongst your own, too, and all their victims have mothers.
9 |
John-Occupied Native American Indian Territory,
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009
And BTW, I forgot to ask: how much money from holocaust reparations is used to defend ex-Nazis? I don't plan to leave the land stolen from the natives any time soon, but I will contuinue to criticize others because I was b orn a hypocrite and I can't help myself
10 |
dan J usa,
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009
John if someone tries to kill my child ...I am going after him and if his child is killed then they should have thought of that in the first place. John you say you are from the USA..well you are fine today because 64 yrs ago (almost to the day) The United States Army airforce dropped a atom bomb on Hiroshima. It killed over 100,000 people and thousands more wounded. But maybe the bomb didnt kill any children? Yeah.. Johnny ole boy, you are safe on your Jew hating computer because we dropped that bomb. Its called WAR JOHN BOY! Start it and we'll finish it! Remember Pearl harbor and 9/11.
11 |
Robert,
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009
John - here is the problem - there will never be peace until the Arabs love their own children more than they hate ours. They're entire society has spent the last 80 years dedicated not to building a future for themselves, but to trying to destroy the future of the Jews.
12 |
Dupree USA,
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009
As long as their are folks like John #2 and there are many Israeli Jews better not let their guard down. . It's amazing how fair and decent the vast majority of Jewish Israelis are toward a people how have via ballot ,words and deeds shown their support for the enemies of Zionism. I don't blame Arabs for wanting an end to the Jewsih State. I blame them for then complaining that they are being treated unjustly. Where else in the world is a population commited to the destruction of the majority culture treated anywhere nearly as well. That may not last but for now they should be saying thanks
13 |
Mohammad-morocco,
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009
Salam!
what selfishness is this!! It is this kind of narrow and shallow thinking( unfortunatelly the majoriy of the jews have it) that will never let you and those like you to see the way of peace. Your problem is that you still blindly think you are Allah's Chosen Peaple! you are the best! but reading such an article only porves you are the meanest and most corrupted peaple on earth!! you cannot live without sucking others' blood! how cruel you are!
14 |
Chanya,
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009
John (#2) proves one thing only-he knows nothing about the history of the situation or the current reality on the ground. Whether the numbers killed that he lists, the allegation of the "many" children murdered by settlers, Arabs not allowed to live in the settlements (is he aware that Arab towns in the West Bank are Judenrein, but that 1.4 million Arabs live in Israel with full rights), or denied "to see their ancient towns" (which ones would that be), he is wrong at every turn. But I don't expect him to change his views. Why should a few facts stand in the way of self-righteousness.
15 |
Esav Benyamin U*S*A,
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009
Mrs. Mandell already answered the question: "Israel has been educating its people for peace since before Oslo. Only when the Palestinians begin doing the same - for example running summer camps aimed at healing the pain they have experienced - rather than the ones they operate now, (guerilla training for children), will there be a chance for peace." Peace has nothing to do with vengeful opposition but with self-development. The Arabs are overdue for taking care of themselves, instead of finding any other excuse for their misery.
16 |
John, USA,
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009
Chanya (#14): Wrong at every turn? So you say that Arabs can live in the settlements in what is occupied land? Funny because last I checked there was a big security apparatus as well as armed presence to keep them out, which comes with the whole "military occupation thing". And do you claim no children have been murdered by settlers? or that it hasn't been "many" (how many dead children is enough for many for you Chanya?). Finally, you are surely aware of the Palestinian refugees who were from well, Palestine and who are not allowed in the country? It would seem you need to check your facts.
17 |
Ben Ami, Tel Aviv, Israel,
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009
If talking will not achieve peace, at least it will reduce the liklihood of war. As Winston Churchill said: To jaw-jaw is always better than to war-war. So Mrs. Mandell, don't be so quick to discredit attempts to talk peace. The worst that can happen is much better than the alternative.
18 |
Jan, Australia,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
Dear Sherri Mandell, I am coming to love Hebrew as it has logical links that all speak of deep experientially verifiable truths. Thankyou for the link between shalom and shalem. The Torah is the only book that teaches us how to love, that we are not to carry a grudge, that we are to treat strangers well. It shows love in action, and what happens when it fails. I KNOW it now in action when I 'keep to do' how it has given me peace. 'Let go', as David says 'not my hand', means our mind is at peace, we don't need think about our enemies. But sadly as evil exists we have to fight evil that attacks
19 |
muhammad-morocco,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
salam! to Mr.Robert
let me ask you: if a pickle hurts your foot, do you remove it first then run, or do you run while the damn pickle is still aching your bleeding foot?! the horse first of the cart?
20 |
Jen USA,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
Sherri, With each column, you seem to be more and more blinded by bigotry. You could be doing the real work of peace-making. Whether the settlements remain or are eliminated by Israel, you could be reaching out to mothers on the Palestinian side or at least their children. Imagine the power of your outstretched hand. Instead, you make very weak, whiny excuses about children only healing among their own. How racist & sad! Peace isn't achieved by proximity but by hard work and understanding. It isn't always easy to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That is the real work.
21 |
Chuck Harris,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
Leave the Palestinians in peace already... You pushed into and created you country, so let them have theirs....
You talk about the Holocaust involving MILLIONS of JEWS, but you NEVER, and I mean NEVER mention the Poles, the Ukrainians, or the Russians, that died next to your brothers and sisters. Bullshit, you don't own the corner on the Holocaust. Get real. Retreat, and build your own country, build the boarders between you and Palestine and forget about it already....
But if being a JEW means you get forget, but you have to get EVEN, God pity your soles....
22 |
roochi-efrat,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
well sherri, your beautiful article triggered quite a few vehement responses!
keep writing-you do it so well!
23 |
Chris USA,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
Peace requires a foundation just as a house, or both will collaspe under duress. This begins with a perception that the other is like oneself and then grows thru the bonds of mutual shared interest. With nations the latter often happens first. With children it is the opposite because they are more open and vulnerable and therefore must be protected more than mere nations. The relationship is analogous to gardening hence the many biblical references to such.
24 |
Chris, Israel,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
John and Jen, it is worth for you to think about children being killed every week in "drone strikes" in Pakistan... or about children of 2000 Afghanis, whose death from the hands of US-led coalition Obama ordered to investigate this week... or the children of 3000 Serbs killed 10 years ago... this list can continue...
25 |
Sol, USA,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
May your son's memory be a blessing and a catalyst for healing and peace. I wish you and your husband much strength and success.
26 |
Chanya, Israel,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
John - rather than get into a back and forth (e.g. hmm, and exactly what small percentage of the West Bank do the settlements take up, maybe settlements are guarded for a reason borne out by the reality on the ground that you are intent on ignoring, etc. etc.) - rather than get into that, I really would just like to thank you. You have proven my point. You are only too happy to see this issue through only one lens, distorted though it may be, and have no interest whatsoever in seeing the other side. I wonder if you've actually ever been to a settlement, spoken to people, etc.
27 |
Suzanne, Jerusalem,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
John - the diffrence between the two horrific acts which we agree on, is that in Israel the barberiens he will be brought to justice. The palestinien barbariens will be celebrated as heroes.
28 |
Laurie,USA,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
John obviously falls prey to the Palestinian propaganda. Not all murders are created equal. Many are created by photoshop. Unfortunately anti-israel people are more than willing to accept all the images they see of violence against Palestinians as fact because the terrorists say so.
29 |
L. Rose,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
What John and Muhammad have in common is a pathological need to make Israel and Jews 'wrong' - it doesn't matter to them how many viable peace deals Israel offers the Palestinians (that they turn down) - it doesn't matter to them how many Israelis have been killed in suicide bombings or the fact that there were MORE Jewish refugees from surrounding Arab countries than original Palestinian refugees and that it wasn't Israel that created the Palestinian refugee problem - it was the surrounding Arab countries declaring war on Israel. J&M just want to hate on Israel and never consider its reality
30 |
chaim ltamar,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
obama is no friend to israel, sherri is right that peace will not come just because they are in the same room. the arabs see obama as weak, an this could not come at a worst time with iran developing nuke weapons. my heart an prayers are with israel for dark days are ahead due to a weak american president, obama will make jimmy carter look like a hawk.
31 |
Ken Besig Kiryat Arba Israel,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
The simple answer is that no Palestinian or Arab is willing to settle peaceably with Israel. In fact, they will never settle peaceably among themselves. The savage murder of your son and his friend is only a small bitter taste of the savagery that Arabs carry out among themselves. Honor killings, the murder of Arab mothers, sisters, or daughters by fathers, brothers, or sons, because of alleged sexual misconduct occurs in no other culture or nationality. How does one make peace with Arab savages who celebrate the murder in cold blood of their own mothers, sisters, or daughters?
32 |
Jen USA,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
Chris #24, Changing the topic is a sign of a weak argument. That said, part of the reason we voted for Obama was to change the mis-guided, immoral and downright stupid poicies of George W. Bush. Cowboy diplomacy doesn't work. Perhaps, Israeli's should learn from our example instead of using it as a justification for their own foibles.
33 |
John, USA,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
Chanya - But your comment would seem to apply more to you! Instead of providing evidence for your unsupported claims you retreat and say that I see the issue through only one lens when you yourself prove yourself unable to use both lenses either!
This is perhaps the biggest issue in the conflict, people like yourself are only too happy to demonize the other side and ignore their suffering, which in many cases is caused by, well, yourself. But if the settlements are such a source of pain and misery for both sides, then perhaps it would be best if they were removed, no? Plenty of land in Israel
34 |
Rob, New Jersey,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
I can't help but wonder at John#2 and his idiotic ramblings. How about all the rockets the Arab's lob on Jewish towns that have fallen on schools, and killed children, not militay targets but civilian targets, as many as 20 a day. How about Gush Katiff where Israel threw out 10,000 Jews and gave the land to the "palestians" with an infrastructure capable of producing a billion dollars a year in revenue and supporting thousands, but instaed of building on what was there, the bulldozed it to the ground and not train terroristys there, who strap explosives around their bellies and blow up schools
35 |
Chaim - Israel,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
Historically long terms of peace almost invariably follow resounding military victories. It was necessary for the Allies to totally defeat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan to bring generations of peace in Europe and Asia. It was also necessary to make no concessions to the defeated Germans and Japanese. There is no end in sight to this period of peace. Imagine if America and England had "peace programs" with the Nazis and Japanese instead of defeating them. Imagine if they held hands with the Nazis and Japanese and sang songs together! Heaven forbid. Peace means total Israeli victory.
36 |
Bob Fruehling,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
History more than shows that a true peace will not come from a piece of paper but from the appearence and return of the carpenter from Nazareth. Keep watching.
37 |
Joe, Tekoa,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
The debate triggered off here is not new and millions of words have been said to justify one cause or another. The basic conflict is that Israel wishes for peace, democracy, equality and reconciliation with both the local Arab population and its Arab neighbours, while the Arab leadership's rejectionist agenda has always been to destroy Israel. There can be no peace with vicious hatred and incitement in schools. Israel wants to survive and defends itself, while the PLO and Hamas aim at murdering the Jewish population. Genuine dialogue can only be between peace-lovers. Clone Wafa Sultan.
38 |
michelle,
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009
in my brief interfaith experience I've met Pals/arabs who care about peaceful co-existence here.
It helps and encourages me.
Also Check out Dr. Dajani's www. Wasatia org. teaching muslims about being moderate as according to their religion.
It's not the people of any religion but the extremists who seem to cause the most damage.
39 |
Avrohom - Israel,
Thursday Jul 16, 2009
John, USA #2, poor John. You make up lies, call them facts, and then challenge us to respond to your lies. You are a morally bankrupt and intellectually corrupt person. Too bad you live your life in darkness and surrounded by lies and hatred.
40 |
Yechielshlipshon Nashville, USA,
Thursday Jul 16, 2009
I am an Orthodox(simi) Jew and a Zionest. I grieve for all the children and their parents who have not yet found peace. But the problem is that the abusers are not being brought to task for their abuse. What is this abuse? HaShem owns the disputed land, but according to His word, by the Tanach, this land is given to His chosen people, so we can do the job He choose for us-bring HIs word to Humanity. We are the rightful possesors. So what is a non-rightful possesor-illegal, sqatter in USA words. Let the squatters come to their sences and peace...? Could they, would we?
41 |
David Bedein, Israel Resource News Agency, Beit Agron, Jerus,
Thursday Jul 16, 2009
In response to John, the numbers of murdered people oin the two sides speaks for itself. 38 Arabs have been murdered in cold bood by Jews over the past 15 years. 1478 Jews have been murdered in cold blood over the past 15 years. Those who murder Jews become heroes of the Palestinian Authority. This is not a Nazi like regime. The Nazis hid their murders of Jews. The nascent Palestinian regime takes pride in murdering Jews.
42 |
Hanan Lemann, Jerusalem,
Thursday Jul 16, 2009
John #2 "War is Peace / Freedom is Slavery / Ignorance is Strenght" Sound familar? You probably think that former President Jimmy (the flop) Carter is right in calling Israel with it's 20% enfranchised Arab citizens an Apartheid state, while the PA sentences to death any Arab selling land to a Jew or a Jew wandering into an Arab village.
See David Bedein #41 for the facts
43 |
Jen USA,
Thursday Jul 16, 2009
#41 and #42... People believe what they want to believe, despite the truth. Yourselves, included. David those figures aren't facts.I would also point out that Carter brought about a peace agreement between Egypt and your little country. Without said agreement...your situation would be worse. I think that Carter's long standing commitment to a secure and peaceful Middle East and his history of advocacy for Israel, gives him the right (and obligation) to criticize Israeli policy. I wonder if he and Dershowitz feel the same way about the hate they are feeling from the Israeli right wingers...
44 |
Good FL USA,
Saturday Jul 18, 2009
To: #20 Jen – Calling Sherri a bigot and a racist just exposes you as a bigot and a racist. Sherri is doing something about peace and she is doing it from the side where she physically is. It has nothing to do with race. What are you doing for peace? When was the last time you were in Israel, if ever? When was the last time you sent your kid to school with a doubt whether you’d see your child again? When was the last time you went to the mall knowing you may not come back? Oh, I know……….you read a book about the Middle East so you know all about it. Jen, you are a coward and a disgrace to the USA.
45 |
Avrohom - Israel,
Sunday Jul 19, 2009
Jen #43, you wrote, "I think that Carter's long standing commitment to a secure and peaceful Middle East and his history of advocacy for Israel..." You are fooling only yourself. Talk about believing what you want to believe despite the truth, you are its poster child. Carter is an anti-semite and advocates nothing for Israel except for our need, according to his lowlife character, to accept Jesus, God forbid. Do not come here talking to us, people who know all about carter and his anti-semitic backbone, about issues about which you are ignorant.
46 |
Jen USA,
Tuesday Jul 21, 2009
#44 Good FL, You state that Sherri is doing "something" about peace. I think she does quite a lot to work against peace. She claims that dialogue and co-existance do not lead to peace and that self-growth and spiritual "transcendence" do. I would argue that without dialogue and the willingness to co-exist, all the self-growth and internal healing in the world will not bring about peace. Travelling in a self-constructed bubble and preaching to the choir, as Sherri is wont to do, gains no new friends, no understanding, no real peace and no real healing either.
47 |
Jen USA,
Tuesday Jul 21, 2009
#44 Good FL, Sherri could reach out to Palestinian mothers & help them set up centers for healing. She scoffs at the very idea of being involved in healing Palestinian children. Why? Is it fear or hatred of the Palestinian children? Or is it that she may have to accept the validity of their pain? Who knows. It seems that it is all rooted in prejudice. Call it prejudice, bigotry, racism... it's all the same. It's all bad. You don't need to go to Israel to see the same hate rooted in fear. It's here, too. Sherri chose to live in a tough neighborhood. It is up to her to make it better or worse.
48 |
Jen USA,
Wednesday Jul 22, 2009
Avrohom #45, I may not believe that the Messiah is "coming" (or Carter would think "returning") to Jerusalem, but I wouldn't mock either. Carter's books do not reflect a desire to convert Israelis, as you assert. Where did you come up with that one? He is not an anti-semite or anti-anyone. He knows about prejudice & it's damage from his youth in Georgia. He expresses his love of Israel by being honest about Israeli government mis-steps. I would suppose that you are one of those knee-jerk reactionaries who believe that any critisism of the Israeli gov. is an anti-Semetic comment. How sad.
49 |
Avrohom - Israel,
Thursday Jul 23, 2009
Jen, Carter is an anti-semite and it is well known that his direct statements going back to his meetings with Menachem Begin show it clearly. There is no long standing commitment from Carter about Israel's security and he has not been an advocate for Israel. He views Israel as a direct threat to his religion and he acts on that premise in all his dealings. You hide behind your red herring claim that I am "one of those knee-jerk reactionaries who believe that any critisism of the Israeli gov. is an anti-Semetic comment." because you think it gives you a bully pulpit. How sad.
50 |
Jean - Georgia,
Sunday Jul 26, 2009
There's JEN again- viewing the world through her hummus-colored glasses. David actually provides some accurate numbers and she attacks him anyway. Carter was bought and paid for by the Saudis. That's also a fact. It's also a fact that some people (I won't mention a name) have a psychological fascination with terrorists - they get a vicarious thrill from associating with them from a safe distance and imagining themselves doing what the terrorists do. Therefore they support and laud the terrorists in the blogs, and attack the victims with their evil words.
51 |
Jen USA,
Monday Jul 27, 2009
Avrohom, It is easy to call someone anti-semetic. Do you have the quotes from Mr. Carter to back up those claims? I don't think you do. I suppose that you would think that brokering a peace agreement with Egypt was somehow not to Israel's benefit. I hope that someday, you will be able to see that your true friends tell you the truth about yourself, even if it hurts a little. Israel has done so much to damage her relationship with the US and the world, mostly over the Palestinian issue. It is past time for Israel to act as a responsible, honorable country. If not, how can we still be friends?
52 |
Avrohom - Israel,
Monday Jul 27, 2009
Jen, actually I do have direct statements from Carter to Israeli PM. But they are not for you. But that is not even what is required to show Carter's anti-semitic beliefs. His support for the murders of Jewish babies and innocent people through his support of terrorists is clear to all who have eyes who see and have ears who hear Jen, if remaining 'friends' with you requires our lives, who needs you! Go away. Do you think for a minute you matter in the scheme of things regarding the situation of Israel? Honorable country? You invaded Iraq illegally and you talk about honor? Please, go away.
53 |
Jen USA,
Tuesday Jul 28, 2009
Jean-Georgia, David's figures are mis-leading because his definition of murder does not extend to innocent Palestinians killed during the last decade by Israeli forces. Since 2000, there have been over 4790 Palestinians killed. Of those, only 1721 were definitely part of the hostilities & 880 might have been. That means that more than 2180 INNOCENT Palestinians have been killed during this time. Of those innocents, 635 were children in Gaza & 317 were children in the West Bank.(B'TSELEM). I want to believe that none of them were killed intentionally but I am a realist. This is murder, too.
54 |
Jen USA,
Tuesday Jul 28, 2009
Avrohom, You do not have any quotes. You do not have any facts. You only have hate. I did not support the US invasion of Iraq. I wrote my congressmen. One of the reasons I voted for Obama is that he spoke out against invading Iraq, while Bush beat the war drum & lied to my country & the world. (BTW, Carter also spoke up against the invasion). I suppose that you think that Israel doesn't need US support. Fine. Tell your leaders to give us back our money. Oh wait, you need us for diplomatic & military purposes. You must be ignorant or mad, if you think Israel can go it alone. I pity you.
55 |
Avrohom - Israel,
Tuesday Jul 28, 2009
Jen USA #53, you are wrong once again, to nobody's surprise. The definition of murder escapes you. Is your ignorance intentional, are you just a fool, or is your hatred so strong that you are blind to simple concepts the civilized world understands clearly? Your comparison of the intentional slaughter of Jewish inncoents by Arab terrorists to the death of Arab civilians during defensive measures against terrorists is nefarious. How appropriate, coming from you.
56 |
Jen USA,
Wednesday Jul 29, 2009
Avrohom, Avrohom... Murder, as defined by Miriam Webster, is the unlawful killing of a person. It is illegal, under international law, to "cause incidntal loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which woudl be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated". See Article 51, First Additional Protocol, Forth Geneva Convention. During Cast Lead (just as an example), there was a disproportionate use of force which led to excessive civilian death & destruction of civilian property. (continued...)
57 |
Jen USA,
Wednesday Jul 29, 2009
To Avrohom, my Israeli friend, continued... Although Israel had the right & responsibility to defend her civilians from Hamas' attacks, the overkill was shocking. All of which I find sad and ironic, because Israel's defense forces have the best optics, satelite technology, accurate weaponry, drones, etc. (some paid for by my taxes) & had a moral and legal responsibility to minimize damage to civilian property and life. Israel didn't. What happened? Murder of civilians. Israel lost her moral compass, lowered herself to Hamas' level and lost the respect of the rest of the world.
|
 |
 
Combined feed for all JPost.com blogs
Top Rated Posts
Tags:Blogroll |
Post your own comment
