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Thursday Mar 26, 2009
In the Trenches: When America let down Europe's Jews Posted by David Harris
Comments: 60
I recently testified before a subcommittee of the US Congress on a topic of immense historical importance that continues to resonate - and haunt us - to the present day. This text is taken from the full testimony submitted to the congressional record. Time does not permit more than a brief review of US immigration policy from 1933 to 1945, the years that coincide with the rule of the Third Reich. Fortunately, there are many scholarly works on the subject, as well as personal testimonies, which fill out the picture. Upon assuming office in 1933, President Franklin D. Roosevelt was immediately confronted with two daunting challenges - one domestic, the other foreign. At home, President Roosevelt faced the devastating impact of the Great Depression and the pressing need to rebuild the economy and restore confidence in the nation. Abroad, President Roosevelt took office just weeks after Adolf Hitler ascended to power in Berlin. From the start, the President showed courage and sagacity in dealing with the domestic challenge, while over time recognizing, to his everlasting credit, that a country unenthusiastic about the prospect of once again rescuing Europe from its own demons, as it had in the First World War, needed to be prepared for that eventuality. But the Roosevelt era included one great failing. As a nation, we did far less to rescue Jews, who were targeted for extinction by the Nazi juggernaut, than we could and should have. Who was to blame? Frankly, it would be easier, and much shorter, to list who was not to blame. The reasons, excuses, and defenses for those who failed to act could fill volumes. However sensitive President Roosevelt might have been to the Jews' plight, and there is reason to believe that he was, domestic politics at the time made it difficult for him to act. He was fearful of inciting the fertile ground of domestic anti-Semitism and facing the wrath of widespread nativist sentiment, both attested to by public opinion polls at the time. Moreover, he was convinced, once the US entered the war, that the best way to help Europe's Jews was to vanquish the Nazis as quickly as possible, without any so-called distraction or diversion of resources. The Congress, while including some members who desperately wanted to help beleaguered Jews, could not overcome the resistance of restrictionist colleagues, who, reflecting the popular mood, were unwilling to revisit strict immigration laws adopted in 1924, leaving those laws intact throughout the period under discussion here. The State Department, plagued by the bureaucratic instinct for inertia and legalism at its worst, not to mention a tissue-thin facade that barely concealed the anti-Semitism of some of its key decision-makers, was the last place in Washington to look for help. The general public was certainly not clamoring for the gates to be opened. Fearful of more newcomers, who were seen as threats to scarce jobs, and influenced the hysteria wrought by demagogues like Father Charles Coughlin, who railed against the Jews in his popular radio broadcasts, the American people exerted little pressure on elected officials to do something dramatic to help Europe's embattled Jews. In fact, a 1942 survey, cited by Leonard Dinnerstein in Anti-Semitism in America, found that Americans rated Jews as the third greatest "menace" to the country, behind only Germans and Japanese, the countrys sworn wartime enemies. By 1944, Jews had moved to the top of the list, with 24 percent of Americans believing that Jews posed the greatest danger. With notably few exceptions, the media did not experience its proudest moment, either. In such leading newspapers and opinion-molders as The New York Times, stories about the plight of Hitler's victims were often brief and buried, and editorials were few and far between. They hardly contributed to an understanding of, much less a popular outrage against, what was taking place in Europe, even as the grisly facts of the Nazi eliminationist plans emerged. Jewish agencies, including my own, were alarmed by the trajectory of developments and sought in their various ways to raise consciousness and reach decision-makers, though, it must be said, their clout was severely limited. Indeed, as historian Henry Feingold despairingly notes in The Politics of Rescue: Much of their formidable organizational resources were dissipated in internal bickering until it seemed as if Jews were more anxious to tear each other apart than to rescue their coreligionists. I could go on. Suffice it to say that this was not our country's finest hour. In the interests of time, let me cite just three examples that, I believe, encapsulate the larger story. In May 1939, a passenger liner, the St. Louis, set sail from Hamburg with over 900 Jewish refugees. It was destined for Cuba, but on arrival, Cuban officials cancelled the transit visas that had been issued to the passengers and refused to let all but a tiny handful disembark. The ship then headed for the coast of Florida, coming so close that the refugees could see the lights of Miami, but US officials callously refused to let it enter a port and discharge its passengers. Rather, the ship was sent back to Europe. More than a quarter of the passengers, it is known, were subsequently killed by the Nazis. Imagine, our country could find neither the compassion nor the legal basis to admit 900 Jews fleeing Hitler who were within sight of our shores. The next year, Assistant Secretary of State Breckenridge Long, no friend of Europe's Jews, to say the least, wrote his now legendary words: "We can delay and effectively stop for a temporary period of indefinite length the number of immigrants into the United States. We could do this by simply advising our consuls to put every obstacle in the way and to require additional evidence and to resort to various administrative devices which would postpone and postpone and postpone the granting of the visas. Imagine, key officials in the State Department, when they were not trying to suppress information coming from Europe about the fate of the Jews, were actively seeking ways to block entry to the United States. In so doing, they failed even to meet the strict immigration quotas operative at the time. Shockingly, from 1933 onward, for example, the annual country quota for immigrants from Germany was only filled once. In 1939, for example, there were over 300,000 applicants for the 27,000 German slots alone. The failure to do so was not for any shortage of applicants, cumbersome though the process was - including, hard as it may be to believe, a Certificate of Good Conduct from German police officials and, as of September 30, 1939, proof of permission to leave Germany. Rather, the problem was a total lack of compassion. Nor were the refugees excluded in the knowledge that, if the United States did not resettle them, other nations would. Indeed, few other countries did. Apropos, Britain, which itself took in 70,000 European Jews, succumbed to Arab pressure and tightened still further entry into Mandatory Palestine, another theoretical escape route, when, tragically, there was no sovereign Israel to offer safe haven to Jews in desperate need. Two major intergovernmental conferences, Evian in 1938 and Bermuda in 1943, were touted as venues for discussion of the refugee crisis, but the US and other participants seemed more far interested in the politics of symbolism than in substance. In other words, the vast majority of Europe's Jews, feeling the Nazi noose tightening around their necks, were literally trapped, even when they still had the chance to leave countries like Germany and Austria. Too many had nowhere to go. They were the unwanted flotsam of the Second World War. And on January 16, 1944, Henry Morgenthau, the Secretary of the Treasury, wrote his cri de coeur to his friend, President Roosevelt. In it, he said: The best summary of the whole situation is contained in one sentence of a report submitted on December 20, 1943, by the Committee on Foreign Relations of the Senate, recommending the passage of a Resolution (S.R. 203), favoring the appointment of a commission to formulate plans to save the Jews of Europe from extinction by Nazi Germany. The committee stated: 'We have talked; we have sympathized; we have expressed our horror; the time to act is long past due.' Concluding his admirable letter to the President, Morgenthau wrote, referring to the State Department: The matter of rescuing the Jews from extermination is a trust too great to remain in the hands of men who are indifferent, callous, and perhaps even hostile. Imagine, the Secretary of the Treasury felt compelled to resort to such language about governmental colleagues in a letter to the President, so angry and anguished was he about US refugee policy. Importantly, the result of Morgenthaus intervention was the creation of the US War Refugee Board, which, through sheer ingenuity and audacity, was successful in protecting an estimated 200,000 Jews from otherwise certain death. It was a stark reminder of what this country was capable of when it resolved to act. If only we had done so sooner - but alas, the government spent little time considering ways to rescue Jews, slow down the transport trains to the extermination camps, bomb the machinery of death, or warn the Nazi regime of severe retribution for its genocidal policy. Madame Chairwoman, I cannot end this testimony without a personal word. Even with the grievous failures of omission and commission in American policy, an estimated 200,000 Jews were able to enter the United States in the 12-year period from 1933 to 1945. That number may have been a mere pittance compared to those who sought entry and, indeed, were eligible for admission under the existing quota system, but nonetheless those 200,000 Jews were saved. I would not be here today, Madame Chairwoman, were it not for that group of 200,000. My mother and maternal grandparents were among them, arriving in New York in November 1941. Their entry into the United States was not made easy, I assure you, but in the end, having crossed the Iberian Peninsula to Lisbon, they were able to board the SS Exeter and find a safe haven, and new start, in this country. But if only more leaders had had the capacity not only to grasp the genocide at hand, but also to identify with the anguish of the victims - the victims who till the very end wanted to believe that their plight as human beings would not, could not, go neglected - then there would have been no need for this hearing. And, yes, there would be many more people like myself today proud to call America home.
1 |
Robert,
Thursday Mar 26, 2009
Great piece Harris. The history of America's attitude toward Europe's Jews is a shameful time in US history. Harris and the AJC are doing a lot to ensure the safety and security of world jewry. Keep up the good work.
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nuni US,
Thursday Mar 26, 2009
Bravo. My Polish parents families were totally destroyed. There was no help. They have lived without any relatives. INo one can imagine the feeling. I was born in a displaced persons camp in Austria. Austria says I am not Austrian . My parents are Polish but there are no relatives to go back to visit and other people are living in their properties... When we came to the US we were told that it was hard here too..they had to stand in line for food ! There is nothig to answer to that except now there is Israel. s Bravo
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padraig,
Thursday Mar 26, 2009
Just as in Germany in the 1920s, America, with an unemployment rate of over twenty percent, didn't need immigrants competing with our unemployed. Secondly, America FEARED communism, which isn't mentioned in this statement. As unions were being forged in the steel, trucking,and auto industries, communists were calling meeting AFTER the workers had left, to push their leftist agenda.
We came remarkably close to turning to communism, if it wasn't for FDR. A look at Bella Abzug's behavior is instructive to the times. She supported the Nazi-Communist pact to destroy Poland and the Baltic lands
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nuni US,
Thursday Mar 26, 2009
#3 padraig.
destroy the Polish and Baltic states ? They have all the left over properties of the murdered Jewish people who had lived in their midst for hundred of years ! The Germans were soldiers who did what they were told .. The Polish and others did what they NEVER HAD to do. So stop with your communist stuff. The Russians liberated my father from Auschwitz. As they were going to the front to get the Germans, they told the Auschwitz perpetrators to feed my father SLOWLY since he was starved.. and HE BETTER BE ALIVE when they reurned.
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Nachman, London, UK,
Thursday Mar 26, 2009
What you are stating here is an old story and there is nothing new in it apart from chronicling some main events detail. Most people already know that the N.Y.Times iniquities are heightened by themselves being owned by the Jewish family of Sulzberger to this day after taking it over in 1896 from Messrs.Raymond & Jones. The UK succumbed to Arab pressure as you state; eg ignoring Jabotinski's lengthy pleas to the Pal.Royal Commission 1937, and virtually ended Jewish entry to EY by the 1939 White Paper, an absolute unbelievable perversion which cost us 6 m. lives plus a total majority in EY.
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Nachman, London, UK,
Thursday Mar 26, 2009
Continuing here due to lack of space; I delievered personally a paper to the UK Foreign Office some years ago after commencement of the 2 State Solution - Road Map Plan talks, indicting the UK government for what is perceived here as criminally refusing the mass entry of Jews in dire perril of their lives, to their homeland for which the UK govenment itself was mandated and therefore obliged so to do. In this way the UK government, prior to 1939 was itself at least criminally negligent in bowing to Arab pressures, and an unwiiling partner in the murder of 80% of the Jews of Europe.
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Michael B,
Thursday Mar 26, 2009
As history, much is omitted and variously "managed." Firstly, there were at least three (3) massive genocides during the 20th century that preceeded Hitler's holocaust: the Armenian genocide, c. 1916, denied to this day; Lenin's and Dzerzhinsky's genocide, c. 1922; and Stalin's and Kaganovich's genocide in the Ukraine, c. 1933. History doesn't occur in a vacuum. Also, both Washington and London rebuffed emissaries of the German resistance, prior to the advent of hostilities, c. 1938, if memory serves. Additionally, there's the question of Roosevelt's economic policies.
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U.M.,
Thursday Mar 26, 2009
The US should do something with the rise in anti-Semitism in the US in recent years. The situation resembles the '30s in Europe. The US media is becoming increasingly anti-Semitc; the American Jews are seen as a "treat" to nation, like in Nazi Germany before the war.Foreigners see it clearly. The Jews are also facing extremely difficult times in Britain, which is exporting anti-Semitism. It is also clear that the elites in the US have an infection of this disease which once led to a world war. Anti-Semitism is a mental illness, and it should be treated like it.
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Yerusha,
Thursday Mar 26, 2009
A great narrative of history through personal witness.Thanks. In the face of another attempt to dismiss and eradicate the fact that holocaust existed,this kind of historical narrative is a stark indeniable evidence.I hope more people would write such history that springs frm their personal legacy.For the 200.000 Jews allowed in,I'm grateful to the US, though I mourn the lost of lives who were turned away too.Giving credit to the wider context that US was facing at that time, it must have been a horrendous dilemma with the Japs also on the other side.BUT PEARL HARBOUR FORCED US to a decision!!
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Jen USA,
Friday Mar 27, 2009
Great post! Don't forget that many American Jews didn't believe that it was really happening... even as relatives abroad sent letters detailing the events happening around them. America still had scars from WWI and had no intention of entering into what was then seen as Europe's problem. It is scary how people didn't see the horror, because they didn't want to see it.
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Avi Aloni-Krugman,
Friday Mar 27, 2009
We, Jews of Europe were first and foremost let down and betrayed by the Zionist organizations in Europe and then by our own Jewish organizations the "Judenraete". The Zionists only wanted to help young people to Palestine and the Judenraete only the rich and influential Jews.
We didn't expect much neither from US nor from UK. But from our brothers who worked together with the Nazis pursuing their own intersts and let us be extermined in Gettos and concentration camps.
Don't try to falsify history.
Best regards.
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frank usa,
Friday Mar 27, 2009
Your not telling all the facts my friend. Jewish organizations only endorsed Jews going to Palestine during this period. Read the book, Perfidy if you want the truth.
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Dan USA,
Friday Mar 27, 2009
Why is the US House subcommittee holding hearings on WWII immigration policies? Considering what happened in the period from 1933-1945, I would think a better topic would have been American isolationism, and indifference to world events, and unilateral disarmament.
Harris could make a case that "America First" sentiment enabled WWIII and the Shoah.
I appreciate Harris is the executive director of the AJC, and that there is factional warfare going on in this community. Why I don't know. Are these hearings part of some struggle going on?
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Vladimir, USA,
Friday Mar 27, 2009
To padraig: America did not fear anything, remeber FDR: "We have nothing to fear but feat itself"?
What a shallow and sleazy mumbling about "unemployment rate", "communism" etc. Millions of women and children were about to be MURDERED just because jewish blood flowing in their veins, and someone talking about unemployment...
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Daniel-Atlanta,
Friday Mar 27, 2009
On the other hand, America sheltered about 3,000,000+ Jews during the tragic events in Europe before and during WWII, and sacrificed about 200,000 American lives to free Europe, including the remaining Jews left in Europe. I know many Jewish writers like to focus on what America didn't do in their opinion during WWII, but it is also good to focus on what America did do. What it did do was far more important than what it did not do. It was America that recognized the infant State of Israel in about 18 minutes after it declared itself a nation.
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Hypatia Santa Monica California,
Friday Mar 27, 2009
You went WAY too easy on Roosevelt.
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Stanley, Israel,
Friday Mar 27, 2009
Thank you so much for all your hard work in keeping the past negligence in the minds of the present leaders so as not to repeat these same mistakes.
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CS Goldstein,
Saturday Mar 28, 2009
Mr.Harris, this is far,far too late in coming from you .The Jewish leadership, again, has failed the European Jews AND those in the US , Canada, Latin and South America. The difference between Nazi Era and crimes is that the concept of a Holocaust from the most learned and civilized country was difficult to fathom.Now, we know of what human beings are capable.The US,EU-Quartet,the UN are all pursuing another policy of devastation of the 6 million in Israel-aided again by Jewish leaders, or world leaders who are Jewish.Wolfensohn,Kurtzner,Rahm Emanuel,Olmert,Livni,Barak,Peretz,Seigman,Savir,
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Carolyn,
Saturday Mar 28, 2009
cont.-Peres,Abe Foxman,every Jew in Congress with few exceptions,such as Ileana Ross-Leithen and Cantor,M.Zuckerman,Soros and friends, JStreet people, S.Reich,JuneWalker,Indyk,Th.Friedman,Chomsky, most of the Jewish press in US, EU, etc.Where have they been?If Dershowitz,Colter,Adelson and Klein are so knowledgeable and active that doesn't mean they can do all this by themselves.This time we have 80-100 million Christians' support and still we shrink from our responsibilities.In Congress we have had Henry Jackson,and Moynihan later at the UN along with Kirkpatrick and Bolton.But they need us.
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Mary-Miami, Florida ,Friday March 27,2009,
Saturday Mar 28, 2009
It is never too late to point out the mistakes of Roosevelt during those years. after all, Jews proved to be among the most productive people after gaining entry into the U. S. The tragedy has already occurred. We must not let it happen again. The climate in the U.S. today is one about which the Jews need to be vigilant. I was one of the lucky children who escaped Warsaw in 1939 to Australia after Hitler entered Poland. However, my father's parents, brothers, sisters, nephews, nieces were all murdered in Auschwitz with the exception of one brother and his wife who left for Palestine in 1935.
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David Turner,
Saturday Mar 28, 2009
#15, I assume the number you refer to were Jews already resident in the US, that is American citizens, before Hitler was elected chancellor in Germany, and Roosevelt president in the US? Because the historical evidence demonstrates that the fabled US president only reluctantly towards the end of the war allowed any steps to be taken on behalf of Europe*s Jew, but under the banner of non-intervention into the internal affairs of a sovereign state refused to even confront Hitler during the years of antisemitic legislation leading up to Auschwitz.
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David Turner,
Saturday Mar 28, 2009
To test the true motivation of this president,US policy and of the antisemitism driving that policy (antisemitism in the US was very similar to that of Europe before, during and following Shoah) remember the SS St. Louis. In flight from the Holocaust the ship sailed up and down the US coastline seeking haven for its cargo of 900 Jewish refugees. Running out of fuel the St. Louis was forced to return to Europe, its passengers to their fate in the Holocaust. Or the fact that FDR refused to allow a single bomb be dropped on Auschwitz or the rail lines feeding Jews to its ovens.
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David Turner, Richmond, USA,
Saturday Mar 28, 2009
His reasoning, that bombing the death factories would divert the air force from military targets thereby delay victory; that bombing the camps would put American airmen at risk; that innocent camp residents might be killed! In fact bombing raids were routinely carried out on targets surrounding the camps and rail lines, often within sight or earshot of inmates cheering them on.
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David Turner,
Saturday Mar 28, 2009
No, #15, a better argument, one that more neatly fits the historical record, would hold that Germany*s obsession with killing Jews was tying up personnel and resources that might otherwise be used against the invading armies; that, as Germany never put to paper its intention to carry out Hitler*s ultimate war aim of eliminating all Jews, the threat to humankind from the planet, so the US never put to paper the fact that the Holocaust served US war interests.
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Daniel-Atlanta,
Saturday Mar 28, 2009
Every time I hear a Jewish person/writer blame Franklin Roosevelt for shortcomings during WWII, I have just that much less sympathy and respect for Jewish causes today. There were mistakes made, priorities determined, hard choices made. The bottom line is that the world was threatened by an Axis of evil that almost succeeded in ruling the world. Roosevelt put his entire energy into stopping that evil. Hitler and the Nazis are totally responsible for the horror of the Holocaust, not FDR or America. Play your guilt games in some other way. I'm not buying it.
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Zachary, Boston,
Saturday Mar 28, 2009
#18, you inexplicably write, "Mr. Harris, this is far too late in coming from you." This was a Congressional hearing. Harris was asked to testify. He shared his testimony with us. The timing was determined by Congress, not Harris. And I appreciated what he had to say. No mincing of words, no glossing over the painful facts. Please tell us, Ms. Goldstein, the last time you were asked to testify in Congress on behalf of the Jewish people and how we can read your words.
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sb,
Saturday Mar 28, 2009
The PBS Series "American Experience" gave good insight into this topic with pbe of its shows "America's role in the Holocaust"
28 |
Padraig,
Saturday Mar 28, 2009
Turner's analysis is thoughtful, as some 250 Jews on the St. Lewis ended up as victims of the Holocaust. It did take enormous resources for the Nazis to kill 11 million people, more than half of them Jews. The first concentration camps outside of Germany were created in Poland to kill the intelligensia, murder hundreds of thousands of "inferior" Slavs, and steal some 100,000 children from Polish families. Would any of it have happened without the Ribbentrop-Molotov sell out. We do know Leftists in America loved this coalition of dictators as they commenced their butchery towards innocents.
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Louie_Louie, Oregon.,
Sunday Mar 29, 2009
South Africa too sent boat loads of Jews trying to escape from Europe back onto the High Seas.
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Zachary, Boston,
Sunday Mar 29, 2009
To Daniel, #25, what a harsh, even cruel, statement! Please explain, for example, how admitting the 900-plus Jewish passengers of the St. Louis in 1939, all of whom were fleeing the Nazis, would have diverted US resources -- at a time when the US wasn't yet even in the war! As Harris writes, the ship was literally just off the Florida coast, yet was sent back to Europe. Examine the State Dept. record at the time, which was profoundly unsympathatic to the plight of Jews, rather than make unfounded statements about "Jewish guilt games."
31 |
Ropbert Weintraub,
Sunday Mar 29, 2009
The Jews of America were a frightened bunch during the thirties and clung to FDR as a savior.
With leadership' I believe the American Jews would havew rallied to the cause of European Jewry but the leadership was not there. An exception was a group of Irgun officers, followers of Jabotinsky, who organized pressure on Washington resulting in the creation of the War Refigee Board in January. 1944. Tens of thousands of Jews mostly in Rumania and Hungary were rescued as a result.
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Daniel-Atlanta,
Sunday Mar 29, 2009
To #30 Zachary. I am aware of the St. Louis incident. The reaction of the U.S. state department was wrong, just as the reaction of Israel is wrong concerning the many African refugees who try to find safety and are turned away. However, I am aware that Israel must balance many priorities, the same as Roosevelt had to balance priorities to prepare for the building storm in Europe in 1939. This mostly academic pursuit of tearing down FDR is most unproductive outside of Jewish fund-raising circles, I'm afraid. It does nothing to build support for Israel today.
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David Turner,
Sunday Mar 29, 2009
Not quite so simple, #31. Correct about Bergson, a Palestinian Jew, and his group of mostly Americans. They fought hard to raise consciousness, to save the Jews. But even Bergson entered the scene late in the war. As regards American Jewish leadership of the time, there is plenty to criticize. But recall that we Jews have only since the mid-19th century been *emancipated.* Previously, when our communities were threatened, our leaders would approach bishop, prince, whoever was in power, pleading for mercy and aid. American Jewish leaders before, during and following Shoah acted as court Jews,
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David Turner,
Sunday Mar 29, 2009
pleading, not demanding.
But some might wonder, the Holocaust was unfolding in Europe. Why would American Jewish leadership behave as if Jews citizen of the US were threatened? Because we were threatened. Antisemitism was as popular (by some counts more popular) in the US as in Europe. In fact, had the Republicans convinced Charles Lindberg or Henry Ford to run against Roosevelt there was a very good likelihood that either the US would have remained out of the *European War* entirely or might well have joined Hitler in the war
35 |
David Turner,
Sunday Mar 29, 2009
against the Soviet Union. Since both Republicans were antisemites, decorate by Nazi Germany for their support of Hitler; since American eugenics inspired and justified German race policies, including eliminating undesirables; since the US, even under FDR, like Germany had concentration camps, if only for Japanese-Americans, it should take little imagination to reach the conclusion that American Jewry would likely have been the next chapter in solving, once and for all and with finality, the two-thousand year long Jewish Problem Hitler set about solving.
36 |
Dorothy Kushner,
Sunday Mar 29, 2009
I recommend the documentary film "Who Shall Live and Who Shall Die," director Laurence Jarvik, the first made (in 1982) about this very subject.
37 |
Joseph London,
Monday Mar 30, 2009
What I find especially distressing is that more and more is being revealed about just how much the Allies knew and just how early they knew. Bletchley Park in Britain had broken the German enigma code and read messages referring to mass murder of Jews as early as 1941. The Polish [non-Jewish] officer Witold Pilecki went into Auschwitz and sent out detailed reports in 1942. Other reports on other camps were also send to Allied heads of government. Aside from Churchill, who asked the RAF if it was possible to bomb Auschwitz, not much notice was taken of the reports.
38 |
andrew,
Monday Mar 30, 2009
we accepted over 5 million jews according to census records from 1941 to 1944. before you blame america look at the facts........it may not fit with the whole persecution story but their is a reason there are 4 million jews in ny alone today
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Michael B,
Monday Mar 30, 2009
Daniel-Atlanta and andrew - yes. Perspective is needed. A whole set of realities needed to be faced and strategic and logistical decisions needed to be made. Criticisms are still warranted, but proportion, scale and perspective is needed. Hitler's holocaust was easily among the worst two or three crimes of the 20th century (v. my own earlier comment), but "the Jewish question" (a phrase originating, in part, with Marx, btw **) was not and is not the only question before the world, not then, not now. (** "Zur Judenfrage," Deutsch-Französische Jahrbücher, Feb. 1844)
40 |
David Turner,
Monday Mar 30, 2009
#38, The number you refer to is the number of Jews who were not allowed to enter, those who died because of US restrictive immigration policies of the 1920*s designed specifically to stem the flow of Jews seeking to emigrate. Whatever your belief is based on, your views do not accord with the facts available in many books, and from US official State Department records.
41 |
David Turner,
Tuesday Mar 31, 2009
#38, It appears the census records you have been reading are a figment of someone*s imagination. State Department records of the time (the State Department was the doorway of the US government for Jews seeking asylum in the US) are a far more reliable and less fanciful source of information. Read those and arrive at a number nearly 5 million below your *census* figures. Should you be interested in other facts regarding US complicity in the murder of European Jewry, check out my responses above, 21-24, and 33-35. Facts may not affect a belief system, but facts are still facts.
42 |
David Turner,
Tuesday Mar 31, 2009
#39, I think you miss the point and significance of the Jewish Problem, or Jewish Question as some refer to my people. I don*t choose to compare the Holocaust or, as it should more properly Europe*s murder of six million Jews while the US, UK and other western countries stood by, with other mass murder campaigns. The Holocaust was unique precisely because the so-called Jewish Problem was born with the emergence of Christianity from Judaism in the first century (gospels/Paul), reaffirmed by Augustine, redefined by Luther and operationalized by Hitler. 2000 years of hate qualifies for *unique.*
43 |
David Turner,
Tuesday Mar 31, 2009
Why, one might enquire, so many efforts to minimize, to shift blame, to engage in a modified form of Holocaust Denial? This, I feel, is one, if soft and passive, aspect of precisely what defines the bystander, the non-interventionist observer that makes such events a possibility. The facts of the Holocaust are real: Europeans from France to the Ukraine, from Belgium to Greece participated in actively murdering, enthusiastically rounding up for transport to Aushwitz. And all the time the rest of Christendom stood by in silent witness. In your guts you know your guilt. Silence is complicity also.
44 |
Michael B,
Tuesday Mar 31, 2009
David Turner, you're the one missing several points. I wasn't "minimizing" anything, I was speaking to a certain perspective. Marxism/Leninism murdered 100 to 150 million during the 20th century; Stalin's and Kaganovich's Ukrainian genocide alone murdered 4 to 8 million. Hence you're the one indulging a certain denial, not I. And in fact Marx, who could be a vicious anti-Semite himself, did help to popularize "Zur Judenfrage," the Jewish question. But this isn't the forum and you're obviously prone to indulge facile formulations. Likewise, one might inquire about your own motives ...
45 |
Michael B,
Tuesday Mar 31, 2009
Also, worry about your own "hate" and studied silence and sweeping historical elisions, Mr. Turner. I'm a rather consistent defender of Jews and Israel, but I'm not ahistorical and am not uninformed in historical and in other terms as well - to the contrary. Your over-eager charges, your unwillingness to acknowledge momentous historical events, etc., is all something that should cause you pause, that might cause you to develop better considered opinions. Instead, you react, even speaking to "denialism," without the least cause to do so.
46 |
David Turner,
Tuesday Mar 31, 2009
Mike, I wont enter into a debate as to whether right-wing dictatorship or the left-wing dictatorship, whether fascism or slalinism is the more horrible. A person subject to murder and torture and rape is whatever the ideological excuse. I respect and thank you for your thoughtfulness, for your support of Jewry and Israel. And if and when the need arises perhaps you will be among that tiny few called *righteous.* But leaving comparisons of regime aside, history is but an organized collection of facts. Organized means reflecting the understanding of the organizer. I cannot comment on your
47 |
David Turner,
Tuesday Mar 31, 2009
analysis or motives. I can reflect on my own.
For me the Holocaust is a landmark in the historical interaction between two groups, Christians and Jews. In this interaction Christendom has had to deal with theological doubt and uncertainty posed by surviving Judaism. This constitutes the bedrock of 2000 years of Christian anti-Judaism expressed in endless persecution, expulsion and individual and mass murder. For more than 1900 of those years Jews were stateless and had few options but to tolerate and hope for a better future. It took the Holocaust, the
48 |
David Turner,
Tuesday Mar 31, 2009
nearly successful and final solution to Christendom*s Jewish Problem (the term and its underlying economic motive was not the creation of Marx) to realize the diplomatic achievement of a state for the stateless.
The underlying dynamic of anti-Judaism/antisemitism is still operative, and the solution of this historical and present Christian problem still incomplete.
Your view, that the glass is half-full means things have changed, the Diaspora is finally safe for Jews. Mine is that the animus continues, the Diaspora due for the next, yet more
49 |
David Turner,
Tuesday Mar 31, 2009
final solution to the problem. I would happily, for my children and theirs, hope yours is the more correct interpretation. But as a Jew and parent it is my responsibility to prepare for the worst. As I look around Christendom today (Islam never accused the Jews of deicide; they have an Israel Problem) anti-Jewish animus is alive and vibrant. Christendom has done nothing substantive to heal the rift, to expunge anti-Judaism from its theology, from the gospels. The seeds for the next Holocaust remain. Nostre Aetate changed nothing of substance.
50 |
Michael B,
Tuesday Mar 31, 2009
David, you are tendentious and simplistic in the extreme. Firstly, history is not simply "an organized collection of facts," most certainly not so as you, David, conceive it. Your anti-Christian generalizations, your Christophobia, is so sweeping, so stupifyingly conceived and monolithic and dense and lacking in attention to history that it's useless confronting it in such a forum. Hence no inwardness, no self-examination can be found in your commentary. None. You despise with facility and poke with a sharp stick, applauding yourself in the process, little more than that.
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David Turner,
Thursday Apr 02, 2009
3/31-Very impressive, Mike but, then, you do not face the challenges of an overwhelming majority with a history as long as its existence of willingness to do you injury. Am I anti-Christian, no. Some Christians in fact overcame their religious bias and cultural instinct to save Jews from their co-religionists. Christophobic, perhaps. But then, if you were the recipient of our history, as thoughtful as you seem I suspect you would be a little phobic also. Regarding History, I do not believe I defined it in a radical manner. It is a collection of facts; it is organized by the historian.
52 |
David Turner,
Thursday Apr 02, 2009
It should be self-evident that once the agency of a person is introduced bias must be part of the organization. Humans necessarily come to understanding with, well, understanding, with psychological history. We may share bias with others but once one introduces a parent, a teacher into the life of the individual future understanding is already influenced. Shared bias, such as religion, culture and politics are not invented by the individual. Hitler was the product of his past, and the Jews as Europes scapegoats for murder was not mere impulse, but the product of religious and cultural history.
53 |
David Turner,
Thursday Apr 02, 2009
As you write, Mike, this is not the place to conduct what could turn out to be a very interesting discussion. Should you be interested in continuing it visit me at my website, [ Link to page ] . Or just follow the link attached to my name on this Response.
54 |
Michael B,
Thursday Apr 02, 2009
I'm not denying a thing about political, cultural or religiously rationalized pogroms, etc in history. Equally interesting and even pivotal are things such as Marx's extreme anti-Semitism, which I merely alluded to in citing his 1844 essay, "Zur Judenfrage" - and it was in fact pivotal, and "colorful." Also, there has been extremely malicious anti-Christian motifs in rabbinic, Talmudic and Jewish texts in general since the 1st century C.E., so that too is a two sided coin. But this began relative to WWII, hence my original comments and contexts. If you like, begin a comment at your blog.
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David Turner,
Saturday Apr 04, 2009
Michael, I have created a webpage to continue this discussion at, [ Link to page ] /. I look forward to continuing our conversation there. And thanks to JPost for posting this, and affording the opportunity for readers to comment and exchange ideas. David Turner
56 |
Jay P. Houston, Texas,
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009
Yet jewish people of the U.S.A stiil vote democrat......go figure?or at least the librial hollywood types
do...(My people perish for lack of Knowage) you ann't seen nothing yet just wait and see what Obama does,........or doesn't do ,he loves Frankin D Rosevelt and try's to model himself after FDR.
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ApostasyUSA,
Friday Jun 26, 2009
Israel, "The State of Victims".
58 |
Odon Sabo, Cedar Park, TX,
Tuesday Jun 30, 2009
Remember that God is always in controll. Stop looking in the mirror and look where you are going as we speak, can't you see the ditches that have been dug right in front of you? Once again the Beast has risen and is hungry for Gods Children, including us few true Christians. Put your trust in Him alone. Just don't look at the main stream Christianity today, insted, read the New Testament, and pray like you never prayed before. Enter your New Kingdom Jews, it has arived some time ago, and the door is almost closing to it. This New Jerusalem will last forever, I can almost see it descending.
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joe dupont,
Thursday Aug 06, 2009
I suggest that you look at my youtube on the subject. josephdupont and iraq
Israel is in a terrible situation..
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Shlomo Weinberg, New York,
Friday Aug 07, 2009
Abba Eban never said "Palestinian leaders never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity."
What Abba Eban said is: "Palestinian leaders never FAILED to miss an opportunity."
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