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Monday Feb 11, 2008
Guest Blog: Israel not the state of Israelis Posted by David Turner
Comments: 16
In a recent blog post Colette Avital raised the question 'Is the Jewish Agency for sale'? It was inspired by the decision of the Jewish Agency to make Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein, a highly successful fundraiser among US evangelical Christians, a member of the Agency Executive Board. Avital referred to two issues: one regarded the possibility of distorting the Jewish Agency's agenda by opening itself to the influence of money; the second raised questions regarding the motives behind evangelical contributions. Both questions are legitimate, but do not, I feel, go far enough. Of course Evangelical and general Christian support has an agenda. They have never hidden the fact that their support for Israel has, among other things, a selfish interest. The return of the Jewish people to Zion is, according to their belief, the necessary precondition for the return of their messiah. So long as Jewish fundraising among them channels their contributions to general funds such as Israel Bonds, there is no problem. A problem does exist if their contributions are targeted and politically-driven. And this points to the crux of the Eckstein-JA problem. The State of Israel did not just happen to come into existence in the Twentieth Century. Zionism was our Diaspora's response to a material need. The Enlightenment transformed Europe from theocracy to secular; but terrible as theological anti-Judaism was for Jewish survival, a secularized Christendom turned out to be even worse. Only with the emergence of secular Christian animus did we begin to realize that we could never be accepted, never achieve security in Diaspora. The only reason for a Zionist movement, for a Jewish state was Christianity's attitude-turned-action towards the Jewish religion and the Jewish people. The real problem represented by Rabbi Eckstein is not that he was rewarded for his money-raising abilities. As a past fundraiser I know well that such reward is routine in the world of political fundraising. No, the real problem goes much deeper, to the core of our Jewish identity. It is natural for people to accept the appearance of their surroundings as real. Only under extreme duress do we abandon, and then only reluctantly, our preconceptions. Perhaps we are not universally loved as a community, but individually I feel accepted. How comforting to remind myself that a Kissinger could rise to Secretary of State, that a Jew could even run for president. What other country of the Diaspora do Jews find such acceptance? Very reassuring, until we remember that Jews rose even higher, were more accepted, intermarried at an even higher rate in Germany pre-Hitler. But that was then, we cling to, things are different here, today. Nor is Israel less prone to Denial. Three months ago MK Bar-Sasson as chairman of the Knesset Constitution Committee urged limiting Israel's commitment of refuge to the Diaspora by cutting the heart out of the Law of Return, by eliminating the Grandparent Clause. And a few weeks later Interior Minister Sheetrit insisted the Jewish Agency no longer encourage aliya by communities not accepted as Jewish according to Halacha! Thankfully our children are more aware than our politicians regarding the meaning of 2000 years living dispersed within Christendom, of the resulting Shoah. A recent poll found that more than 60% of Israeli youth believe another holocaust is in our future. One would hope that so long and tragic a history would carry within it a warning about our future. Perhaps our Diaspora has been living the myth of acceptance too long to overcome its denial. But a state of Israel was directly inspired by our experience of Christian animus. Israel only gained independence as the result of momentary and transient guilt by Christendom for having perpetrated the Holocaust. Israel emerged out of the ashes of Auschwitz. Israel is not, was never intended to be the state of the Israelis. Israel was created as the vanguard of the Jewish people, to serve as refuge for the victims of our next holocaust. No, the problem of Rabbi Eckstein and the Jewish Agency is not that he is rewarded for his money-raising abilities but that, in full view of history he, like our Diaspora and state, choose not to learn the lessons of 2000 years of Christian-Jewish dialogue, the obvious lessons of history. We choose instead the comfort and security of a self-created fantasy world in which our neighbors, who appear to like us, really do; that they really do have our best interest in mind; that they really do support our project in Israel out of the goodness of their hearts. The real problem represented by Rabbi Eckstein is that we choose not to learn from history and experience. Antisemitism continues alive and well; Christendom's Jewish Problem is yet unresolved. And the technology which, but a mere sixty years ago nearly spelled the end of Jewry and Judaism in all its lands of the world, back even to a single grandparent, has only improved over the decades.
1 | Laurette-Canada, Tuesday Feb 12, 2008
Part 1. You have an apparent hatred for Christians. Obvious from your last article stating that Hitler was a Christian. And your statement now,'the result of momentary and transient guilt by Christendom for having perpetrated the Holocaust.' I believe that this is hate literature that you are writing I forgive you as you are obviously ignorant,perhaps educated but not spiritual. It is only fair that JPost(and I believe they are fair) give Christians an opportunity to rebut the statements made in recent blogs. Let me give you some education.....
2 | Laurette - Canada, Tuesday Feb 12, 2008
Part 2. Some people call themselves Jews and are not. Some people call themselves Christians and are not. Its all about heart condition. A Christian is a follower of Christ and I am sure the world will testify that Hitler was not following Christ when he and other puppets perpetrated the Holocaust. To lay this at the feet of Christendom is nothing but hate for which you should consider repenting. And further more to educate you
3 | Laurette-Canada, Tuesday Feb 12, 2008
Part 3 What kind of Messiah do you think we Christians have anyway? Do we need to collect enough funds to return Jews to their homeland before the return of Messiah? Do you think Messiah is going to have to depend on anyone to do that?Are we in a hurry for Messiah to come? Oh we know He is coming but we are instructed not to wish for it as you should know-the prophets tell you-the day of the Lord is great and very terrible; and who can abide it? I pray that you examine yourself to see whether you are in the faith rather than spending your energy perpetrating hatred upon Christians.
4 | David Turner, Thursday Feb 14, 2008
Laurette, I regret you taking offense at my writings. They are intended to sensitize Jews to a continuing threat, not attack Christians for their beliefs. I am not the hater you describe me as, but have a deep respect for the risks posed by Christianity for Jews, a danger supported by two thousand years of persecution, expulsion and massacre culminating in the Holocaust. Neither will I attempt in these few words to convince you of what, from history should be obvious to an objective observer,
5 | David Turner, Thursday Feb 14, 2008
any Jew not determined to Deny history and precedent to preserve a comfort of life at risk and threat to his/her children. History demonstrates that there are no for-ever exceptions.
You validate your evidence of my hate by pointing out that I misrepresent even the religion of Hitler. His own words affirm the architect of the Holocaust as Christian by choice. Two statements by him taken from hundreds available prove his commitment: from Mein Kampf, "I am convinced that I am acting as the agent
6 | David Turner, Thursday Feb 14, 2008
of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews I am doing the Lord's work." Again in 1941, "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." Hitler is also described as having tithed the Church his entire life.
Again, it is not my intention to attack your religious beliefs, only to alert my fellow Jews. My Truth need not be yours, but if the message makes sense, then you might enlist to assist to make changes that would contribute to possibly averting another Holocaust.
David Turner
7 | Laurette-Canada, Friday Feb 15, 2008
David -of course we will obviously have to agree to disagree. You said you are objective, from my point of view you are anything but objective. You missed the point entirely. As I said,"A Christian is a follower of Christ and I am sure the world will testify that Hitler was not following Christ when he and other puppets perpetrated the Holocaust. " Our own scriptures tell us that many will say they are Christians and are NOT! Of course not enough space for a theological discussion. Warning your fellow Jews about the Christian enemy? You are barking up the wrong tree.
8 | Laurette-Canada, Friday Feb 15, 2008
My Truth need not be yours, but if the message makes sense, yada, yada..There is only one truth, God is Truth. And your message does not make sense. You suggested I enlist to assist to make changes to avert another Holocaust. Look around you don't you know who your real enemy is? Better read Don Quixote and learn to stop fighting windmills You just made things worse suggesting that the next Holocaust would be caused by Christians.. If you want to know what a Christian is read The New Testament.
9 | Laurette-Canada, Friday Feb 15, 2008
Furthermore-David-you are quoting Mein Kampf to expound on Christianity? That would be comparable to me quoting from the Koran- Qu'uan- to tell you what the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob thinks of the Jews. Do you get the point?
10 | bruce griffin, Saturday Feb 16, 2008
I will say something to all here,all of the far right states in europe from 1936 -1943 were led by people who were brought up catholic christian.
Look and investigate,Germany,Italy,Hungary had far right governments,even Poland had a political right government and Austria before annexation.Also Hitler created Slovakia run By a Catholic clergyman,Croatia led by a catholic.
Hitler may have not went to church alot,he was still a christian and catholic.
11 | Laurette-Canada, Sunday Feb 17, 2008
I don't blame you for the point of view you have. A Christian is a follow of Christ-period. Catholics feed their followers half truths, Mass in Latin until the late 60's.They promote Bible stories but not The Bible. The Catholic Church does not want to lose their power over their own people-I was raised a Catholic When I read The Bible I realized that the heirarchy keeps the power with their half truths- e.g they are the mediator between God and man among other things. A Christian is a follower of Christ, not a follower of any organization. Hitler was not following Christ-that is the point.
12 | Laurette-Canada, Sunday Feb 17, 2008
Going to church or proclaiming you are a Catholic doesn't make you a Christian any more than going to Macdonds makes you a hamburger. Our own scripture tells us that the day will come when many shall say 'Lord, Lord and He will say depart from me you workers of iniquity I never knew you' Hitler and his follower fall under that category definitely not followers of Christ-I hope you will see the difference and stop laying the deeds of Hitler and all his puppets at the feet of Christendom .
13 | David Turner, Tuesday Feb 19, 2008
As you say, Laurette, regrettably we do not have common ground to discourse rationally. I was mistaken when I suggested we might. Fact is I have read, am something of a student of Christian origins and the gospels (I quoted them and Paul in the articles you referred to). I wont enter into an inter-denominational squabble over which branch of Christianity is superior. But history is history. And the Jews as deicides is the Jews as deicides. Hard to live that down.
14 | Linda in Illinois, Sunday Feb 24, 2008
David,
I agree with Laurette .
1st being: Hiltler was not a Christian. Period. He was political, diabolical and deceived, but definately NOT a christian.
2nd: you said, " Israel emerged out of the ashes of Auschwitz...
I disagree....Israel was name given to Jacob after the true and Living G-d of Abraham touched him, are the promise of G-d. Israel, the man and the land were existent long before a German mad man decided to try and destroy the people of G-d. They are still here. He is not.
Linda Kropp
15 | Aaron, Tuesday Feb 26, 2008
Linda, I did not read David as vouching for Hitler's brand of Christianity, only the fact that Hitler was raised Christian, paid to his tythe to his church and considered HIMSELF to be a Christian his entire life. By the standards set by Christianity in all its forms I doubt very many of its adherents throughout history would qualify under the terms laid down by you and Laurette, anyway. Hitlers bonafides as Christian is not the issue David raises. Rather it is the role of Christian anti-Semitism throughout the ages, and the continuing risk it poses for Jews today.
16 | Laurette, Thursday Feb 28, 2008
#15Aaron-your response to #14= You are correct when you made this statement-"By
the standards set by Christianity in all its forms I doubt very many of its adherents throughout history would qualify under the terms laid down by you and Laurette," EXCEPT-these are not OUR standards-the scripture tells us-"The road is broad that leads to destruction and MANY there be upon it.The road is narrow that leads to life and FEW there be that find it." So you are correct not many will qualify-certainly not Hitler.
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