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Thursday Jul 03, 2008
Window on Israel: Israeli vs American approaches to war Posted by Ira Sharkansky
Comments: 14
Things are not going well for the United States in Afghanistan. The Washington Post headlines an increase in US deaths. Somewhere down in the article, we read that a ranking American official says, " . . . There has to be better governance, less corruption, more economic development and more vigilance paid to counternarcotics in order to ultimately bring peace and stability to Afghanistan."
That is spoken by someone who did not ask advice from the British or Russians, both of whom blunted their swords without much effect in Afghanistan. I do not claim great expertise on Afghanistan. I spent a limited time there years ago, and have followed things from a distance. I think that I know enough to distrust experts who claim to know what is happening where, and how a foreign force ought to invest its efforts. I have seen the emblems on a cliff face in the Khyber Pass of all those British units that failed in the 19th century. Frustrated Russians left the place, having done little more than killing a lot of their own soldiers, perhaps more Afghans, and contributing to the destruction of the USSR. Were I making US policy, I would have left Afghanistan after giving a massive post 9-11 blow to the Taliban. Whoever ran parts of the country would then know the cost of tangling with America. I would not have invaded Iraq. Never would I aspire to reform either country. For those who think about Israel's efforts with the Palestinians as a model for how the Americans should operate in Muslim areas, I have bad news. Palestine is much smaller in size and population than anything faced by the US. There may be 3 million Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, which together are smaller in size than many American metropolitan areas. Israel has been dealing with Palestinians for its entire modern history. High schools and junior high schools teach Arabic. It is second to English as a foreign language. High school graduates who are close to fluent, or fluent, spend their military service in intelligence. Some stay for a career in the army or another of the security services. The IDF takes youngsters right out of high school, and makes some of them officers. Later it invests heavily in education for those who stay on. Last year I supervised the masters theses of five colonels in the National Defense College. They wrote their theses in about three months, compared to one to three years that civilian students allocate to the task. All of them were acceptable, within standards that I have learned over the course of 40 years. Two of them merited translation and publication in international journals. I offered to help, but the students who wrote them were assigned to functions that would demand all of their time. The security forces also invest heavily in Palestinian sources of information, not in ways they wish to reveal. There are unmanned aircraft and balloons with cameras in the air much of the time. The result is that the army knows which car to destroy from the air, and which house to enter in order to take away more of the bad people. Aspirations are no greater than to achieve a few years of relative quiet. Under pressure from the Bush administration, some politicians speak of making peace with a Palestine on the road to democracy. Few Israelis buy that line. We know that concerted efforts against organized violence will lead enraged individuals to take a kitchen knife, or a bulldozer, and seek to kill Jews. I begin to cry whenever I read about the mother killed in the latest incident, who threw her baby out of the car just before it was crushed. The baby is all right. American optimists see hope for their efforts in Iraq. I do not claim to be a prophet, but I expect that American troops will remain there and in Afghanistan for as long as they will be in Germany, Japan, and Korea. It is not easy being a world empire, with responsibility for everything.
1 | Vinegar Hill, Madrid, Spain., Thursday Jul 03, 2008
Ira, what is the point of your article? Your title indicates a comparative essay but to what end?
2 | Alan, Thursday Jul 03, 2008
There is no basis for your statement that Arab Jew-killing is the result of "efforts against organized violence". What about the Arabs' terror war which started on 2000 after Camp David *peace talks*? The organized violence then was caused by the very "peace partners" we empowered, not by efforts against them. The murderers are not "enraged individuals", but representatives and heroes of the Arab population. Arab rage is not about this or that operation - it is over the fact Jews are sovereign in the Land of Israel.
3 | Kevin, Seattle, Wa, USA, Thursday Jul 03, 2008
The way it looks to me, the terrorists have mostly had their butts kicked in Iraq and the remnants of various groups are now coalescing in Afghanistan/Pakistan. I say good. Let em' all gather up so our folks can find and kill them more efficiently. Let em' feel strong enough to come out and fight. Every time they do, they lose. Badly. I'd be willing to bet that along with increased Allied casualties there exists a corresponding rise in enemy casualties w/a ratio very much in our favor. We're gonna win this fight. Don't doubt it. GO TEAM!!!
4 | Greg Schaub, Albuquerque, NM, Thursday Jul 03, 2008
Most Arabs I know of or about: live and let live. I have learned this does not apply to Middle East Arabs who are drenched in an atmosphere of hatred. Ira is right to say in effect that America has embarked on nation building in the midst of a cultural world view alien to us. Islam's model is a prophet who lived by violence and killing of any who are or seem to differ. Little has changed in subsequent centuries except oil wealth to presently wage war with; the world moves on--Islam cannot; they only have that one model for a hero, though Islam paints it otherwise for Westerners.
5 | Mladen Andrijasevic, Friday Jul 04, 2008
The analysis is true, yet it avoids to pinpoint where the problem lies. The nearest it gets is For those who think about Israel's efforts with the Palestinians as a model for how the Americans should operate in Muslim areas, I have bad news.. So, are you are saying that we would not have the same problem in Buddhist areas? Apparently, since Buddhism does not have the Lesser Jihad as one of its basic tenets. Why after 40 years is it still impossible to state the obvious?
6 | N.J. Harris, Tustin, USA, Friday Jul 04, 2008
The American way of war in the post WW II era is dominated by an absolute confidence in the perfectibilty of man and his society. The assumtion is "If we can only pin them down long enough for them to listen to us, they'll like us and become like us. The minority who don't are a menace and must die". In Israel, a different , more pragmatic view seems to prevail. The current American view implies that history has few lessons because we are so unique. The Founding Fathers ...and the current Israelis... had no such illusions.
7 | Lynn USA, Friday Jul 04, 2008
We are sadly in Iraq for oil & because Bush & his wanted a war, using 911 & fear to justify it. You see enemies, that is just what you will get. The more you gather your forces against an aggressor the more aggressors there will be. There is nothing to fear, but fear itself. Islam is not a violent religion, nor are Christianity & Judaism. It is misunderstanding religions that causes the violence. Humans have the disastrous tendency to fight anything that is other than themselves, out of fear. Israeli settlements and expansion are not the will of God. The bullied grow up to be bullies.
8 | Mladen Andrijasevic, Be'er Sheva, Israel, Saturday Jul 05, 2008
Lynn, what satellite of Jupiter do you live on? Is Bush responsible for all the 11374
Islamic attacks all over the world since 9/11, every one of which is documented on this site: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2008.htm How about watching this 1 hour 40 min video: What the West Needs to Know
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-871902797772997781 ?
9 | joel smith, Saturday Jul 05, 2008
Vinagar Hill from Madrid Spain is correct. Having said that, may I say, the question, basically, is...whch is better: carrots or sticks oveall in trying to get a people to submit and be reasonable? It appears to me that there is no reasoning with people who have been made to believe that what they must do is fight the Americans, or the Jews. The word, jihad, is usefull to those who have nothing better to do than fight us to the end.....Well intentioned populations within both Israel and in th USA restrain us and prevent us from acting as forcefully as unfortunately we must.
10 | Lynn USA, Sunday Jul 06, 2008
No, Bush is not, & I didn't say that. Love heals all. I taught my children that I would much rather they were hurt than that they ever hurt another human being. Israel is very hurt at its heart, & that can be the only reason for all the guns & the settlements. The Islamic attacks are not the problem. We create our own problems. As long as you fight you will be fought. When you think telling others to leave their homes & demolish them, expand into lands given to them by the world peace keepers, is a decent way to behave you must find a better way to heal your hearts, or you just may lose all.
11 | Lynn USA, Sunday Jul 06, 2008
For the most part, the abused grow up to abuse. It is a sad human truth, & we must all learn to break that cycle. It may be so deep in our consciousness that we can't even see it, & it may take a very long time to learn that there is a better way. No matter what some Arabs do, attacks and all that does not justify Israelis or Americans acting violently. If we wish to be treated with respect, we must treat others with respect. There are good & bad behaving Arabs, Jews & Americans. We must learn to love all, even those that are so hurt that they inadvertently hurt us. Guns are not the answer.
12 | Lynn USA, Sunday Jul 06, 2008
I live close to ground zero & went there shortly after. My daughter in NYC is married to a Jew and I love her new family. Many of them came from Israel for the wedding. After 911 I found myself hating all Arabs. I watched the movie Munich time after time & sadly loved seeing Palestinians get their just desert. I have since learned of the horrific settlements. I talk with my sweet daughter in law. She & her family have issues with the Israeli guns & violence. I just hate seeing such a great people, the Jews, hurting themselves & their children with behavior so unbecoming such a rich heritage.
13 | Mladen Andrijasevic, Be'er Sheva, Israel, Tuesday Jul 08, 2008
Lynn I just hate seeing such a great people, the Jews, hurting themselves & their children with behavior so unbecoming such a rich heritage. Behavior so unbecoming? Compared to whose? After 148 exploded Palestinian suicide bombers since year 2000, 26000 terror attacks and 6000 Kassam rockets on Sderot, Israel turned off electricity for 15 minutes in Gaza! Compare that to Britain in 1945 bombing Dresden with 40000 casualties.
14 | Ed M. United States, Tuesday Jul 15, 2008
I am an American, the way we have to fight a war today disgusts me!! we have to be politically correct when we fight wars today, we have to advise lawyers today, PATHETIC!! war is hell, during WWII and to some extent vietnam, because vietnam was a political war run by beurocrats in Washington. My point is if you have to go to war, you fight to win, no matter the cost to mosques, collateral damage, civilians, etc. the war in the pacific was ended with 2 bombs, and the Japanese were begging to end the war, in Europe we bombed everything into oblivian, no political correctness, just VICTORY!!
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