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Thursday Nov 19, 2009
Window on Israel: Gilo isn't a barrier to negotiations Posted by Ira Sharkansky
Comments: 14
Barack Obama was six years old when the Jordanian army opened fire on Jerusalem in the 1967 war. Shortly after the fighting, Israel expanded the city's boundaries. Four years later it began construction the Gilo neighborhood. Gilo made headlines early in the 2000 intifada, when Palestinians bunkered in the nearby city of Beit Jalla fired on apartments there. Israel responded by building a wall to protect the vulnerable area and proceeded to wreak more havoc in Beit Jalla and the rest of Palestine than the Palestinians could achieve against Israelis. Some 40,000 people are now living in Gilo, construction of new homes and public facilities proceeds there as elsewhere in Jerusalem, and planning authorities have recently approved the construction of an additional 900 units. Really? Every once in a while Palestinians indicate that they have been flexible in talks over the course of the past decade, but no details about that flexibility have come to the public's attention. The best guess is that the largely Jewish neighborhoods of Jerusalem, and the settlements on the Israeli side of the security barrier are not going to be on the table.
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EdB - Tennessee, USA,
Thursday Nov 19, 2009
"Possession is nine-tenths of the law." -- "Naivete? Childishness? Chutzpah?"
I choose door #3. --- If a criminal robs a liquor store, then maintains possession and control of the stolen cash, it doesn't make him less of a criminal. The same for a car, or a house, or land. -- Even with the creeping fog in your brain can you not understand why Israel and Zionism is nearly universally despised? I don't think that Israel and it's policy of expansionistic Zionism can survive the Internet. Your reckoning is coming. (On Earth as it will be in Heaven).
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Shani in ISrael,
Thursday Nov 19, 2009
To EdB:
Please list any wars fought in the past 500 years in which the winner of the war "gave back" land they won through war. Then list all the countries that did not give back land they won in wars. Why should Israel "give back" land they won, after all their soldiers died? Yes, in the whole history of the world, the winners win land and keep it. Want to give your home back to the American Indians who lived there until the Americans fought them and forced them out? Israel won the war. they did not rape, loot, or purposely murder the people on the land they won. Not fair - but real.
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Naomi - UK,
Thursday Nov 19, 2009
Thus sayeth the L-rd which giveth the sun.. and ..the moon and..the stars, which divideth the sea.."if those ordinances depart from before me ..then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever".."If heaven above can be measured and the foundations of the earth..I will also cast off all the seed of Israel". Jeremiah 31:35,36. "I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul...men shall buy fields for money,,in the land of Benjamin..in the places about Jerusalem,.Judah,..the mountains,..the valley..the south" Jer: 32:44.
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Neal, Minneapolis, MN USA,
Friday Nov 20, 2009
Dear Ed: What part of reality do you not understand? Britain's mandate for a Jewish homeland included Judea, Samaria and what now is the kingdom of Jordan. Jordan was created by lopping off 78% of the mandate to reward a British World War I Hashemite ally. Since then, the Arabs have turned down every opportunity to create a Palestinian Arab state, starting in 1947; what can you do with people who won't take "yes" for an answer? By continuing to demand all or nothing, Palestinian Arabs have ended up with less than they could have had with the previous offer. My sympathy has evaported.
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Jay,
Friday Nov 20, 2009
yes possession counts!
by your logic " EdB" the United States should give back all the land it stole from the Indians over the early years of the US's massive expansion. Israelis have more right to all of Jerusalem, Judea (hello?) & Samaria then do the americans to places like the state of Iillinois, Michigan, Ohio ect... because they all in fact had large native populations pre-dating the conquest of european/anglo-saxon's and would be the "palestinians" of today. with one big exception: the Jews pre-date the "palestinians" on this land by 2000 years.
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Pero, massachusetts,
Friday Nov 20, 2009
To shani: what about the sinai? israel returned to egypt 1981, and only agreed to do so in 1977, 4 years after the youm kippour war. what about when israel pulled out of lebanon? isnt that in the last 500 years. and anyway, just because something is won in war doesn't make it legitimate
To neal: Britain's mandate was based on the fact that it conquered palestine. what right does britain have to give it away? is this your logic? things can only be won through. my friend, if that is your logic, arabs will be in a perpetual state of war with you, be cause you have no legitimacy.
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Al, USA,
Friday Nov 20, 2009
I agree with Ira. Gilo is part of Jerusalem and should remain so. Pres. Obama is naive and doesn't really understand the situation. However, if he does that is even worse, for he then is intentionally undermining Israel and the city of Jerusalem. Winners of wars and territories traditionally have not returned won territories unless they got something substantial in return. So far the PA has been unwilling to do so. We saw the consequences of leaving Gaza.
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Chris USA,
Saturday Nov 21, 2009
Despite accurately defining the problem you offer no recourse for action. 1 | EdB - Tennessee, USA, Thursday Nov 19, 2009, you sound like a racist uniterested in the historical facts that palestinians lost their land to Israel after a failed attempt to exterminate the jews. Do you not recognize how biased you are concerning the American Indians the US actively robbed and persecuted for being "heathens"? If your going to criticize Israel for successfully defending itself what does this say about america? How about the Phillipine insurrection?
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Doris Darby USA-Detroit Mi,
Saturday Nov 21, 2009
To the people of ISRAEL read II Chronicles chapter 20 pay special attention to v-15. yes they have taken crafty counsel against thy people ie the Goldstone report & the UN the war in Gaza.G-d gave the land to ISRAEL.you still dont posess the entire area that G-D gave you.tell Mr NETANYAHU believe what G-D said the LAND is ISRAELS not not the Arabs
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John R,
Saturday Nov 21, 2009
Possession does not alter the most basic principle in international law established though both the Geneva Convention and the conclusions of the Nuremberg Trials. It is contained in the preamble to UN Resolution 242 which is supposed to act as the basis for Middle East peace. "THE INADMISSIBILITY OF THE ACQUISITION OF TERRITORY BY WAR". There are 4 UNSC resolutions stating the settlements violate the Geneva Conv., 2 more saying the annexation of East Jerusalem is illegal, 2 International Ct of Justice rulings confirming their illegality including the security fence. Try obeying the law.
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David USA,
Saturday Nov 21, 2009
Just when did Gilo become part of Jerusalem? Surely not at the time of David hamelech. When and by whose idea was Gilo "Jerusalemized "? Pretty soon Maale Adumin will also be Jerusalem. And why not Ariel ?? The sky is the limit when it comes to gerrymandering. (For instance, Montreal could become New York just at some poltician's say-so, even if Canada objects).
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Laine Frajberg Montreal,
Saturday Nov 21, 2009
Response to EdB #1,
Hey Ed,didn't your country steal northern Georgia from the Cherokee in 1838?You did this even though the Cherokee were at peace with you and your own Supreme Court declared that the Cherokee had a right to retain their land.Didn't make any difference.General Winfield Scott expelled them anyway-and over a quarter died on the way to their new homes.Contrast this with Israel,which
took east Jerusalem after being attacked by Jordan on June 5,1967-so indeed Israel's Jews have every right to build anywhere they want in Jerusalem.
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Laine Frajberg Montreal,
Saturday Nov 21, 2009
Response to John R #10,
Why not set an example John and return the southwest to Mexico which Pres. Polk STOLE fron Mexico in 1847?You Americans called it "manifest destiny".The rest of the world called it THEFT.
Till then you have no right to criticize Israel for taking-and keeping- land in a DEFENSIVE WAR.Now go away!
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Trish,
Tuesday Nov 24, 2009
John R--the clause you reference presumes a sovereign power--there IS and WAS no sovereign power from which that land was acquired--merely terror camps funded by Arab governments which conducted hit-and-run raids into Israel to slaughter civilians under Jordanian aegis. Furthermore, Israel's post-1967 offer to return the land to Jordan, the illegal occupier in any event, was rejected by the Arab League in toto at the Khartoum Conference. There is nothing illegal in building in terra nullius land taken in a war of self-defense, and nothing in the Geneva Convention prohibits such.
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